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How old do you think the world is and are we the first evolved civilisation?

Lark

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I'm reading about some truly awesome strange archeology which defies scientific explanation, the explanations which do exist are more like fantasy, suggesting that the world is unimaginably old and perhaps we are not the first evolved civilisation but only the latest and prior civilisations or species of human like ancestors wiped themselves out with war or some series of cataclysms.

Some of the weirdest ideas which I'm not sure about but which would be cool if they were for real:-

- Laylines and magnetic poles are an unexplained energy and power network, possibly used for travel or transmission of power

- Unexplained phenomenon like the bermuda triangle or dragons triangle are ancient and broken "natural" weaponology or machinery which have been triggered and become active because something about modern aviation or flight have tripped them once more

- That sea monsters did exist as told in the ancient mariners fables but they were hallucinations triggered by similar "natural" weapons and only fail to effect people as they once did because of cultural and psychological changes (or maybe their "batteries" ran out?)

Also, I want to say, that guy Tesla, what. the. hell. man if even half of what he was dreaming up could become a reality.
 

Totenkindly

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Some of the weirdest ideas which I'm not sure about but which would be cool if they were for real:-

- Laylines and magnetic poles are an unexplained energy and power network, possibly used for travel or transmission of power

- Unexplained phenomenon like the bermuda triangle or dragons triangle are ancient and broken "natural" weaponology or machinery which have been triggered and become active because something about modern aviation or flight have tripped them once more

So far, I'm not seeing any credible evidence in your post as to why we should consider these ideas worth exploring. Got any refs that were important to you in terms of making these seem like true possibilities to you?

I read alot about the Bermuda Triangle when younger (I was a big fan of "In Search of" and "Project Blue Book" at the time too). Right now, any evidence just seems pretty vague and/or muddled... nothing really testable.

I am kind of boggled by the Pyramids, though; and other large construction projects of pre-modern tech eras, that I have trouble understanding how they could have been built, just due to their sheer enormity... and with different pyramids how they were aligned with various astronomical phenomena. Just amazing.

Or the desert imagery described by von Däniken in "Chariots of the Gods"... drawn on such a large scale without anyone seemingly being able to float above them and guide their construction. Again, mind-boggling.

Also, I want to say, that guy Tesla, what. the. hell. man if even half of what he was dreaming up could become a reality.

It was too bad he didn't have a better publicist. Edison ended up kicking his butt because of that.
 

Beargryllz

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Civilization is not unique to primates

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bee-hive.jpg


300px-Safari_ants_tunnel.jpg
 

Savage Idealist

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There have been many civilized societies in history, some well known like anceint Greece, other which probably remain unkonw in the vast river of history. From what I have learned of society in general, it seems that naturally when a population grows so does the state that embodies it. This phenomenon can occur with any group of developing people over time, but the structure of the society can also collapse. However newer societies will emerge in new palces at different times as well.

Also it's important to consider the morals and laws that make up a society. Many practices from other regions of the world may seem barbaric to us; ethnocentricity can influence our perception of what it means to be civilized. Thus even though accustmed moral of our seem ok, in reality they too could be offensive and evil

So no, I would not say that we are the first civilized society, not by a long shot.
 

Lark

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So far, I'm not seeing any credible evidence in your post as to why we should consider these ideas worth exploring. Got any refs that were important to you in terms of making these seem like true possibilities to you?

No, I dont have any refs.
 

Mole

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We are the first civilization to create univeral literacy through a legally compulsory school system - a system described as 'free, secular and compulsory'.

Univeral literacy has created a counter-intuitive way of thinking which we see reflected in science, politics, economics and art.

And modern science, politics and economics have overcome scarcity for the first time in human history.

And even more important our civilization is growing exponentially and will quite soon reach its singularity.

No one knows quite what the singularity may be. We may even pass through it unnoticed.

But in the meantime we drive forward looking in the rear vision mirror, entranced by the road unfolding behind us.
 

entropie

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It's a nice question to ask and an intresting topic. If you watch that B-documentary 10,000 years after mankind, you figure actually mankinds remains are pretty fast vanished and nothing points to our existance of this planet anymore. So I think it's definitly possible that another sort of mankind lived here. Maybe it was the antkind that lived here before :D.

What I find intresting too is the story of Mars. Obviously nowadays the rotation of mass was slowed down and got adapted to the planets revolution around the sun. That means that while the planet revolves around the sun its always the same side of the planet facing the sun. That of course makes life impossible cause you have like daylight on one half all year and night on the other half. There's a theory that says this wasnt always so and some billion years ago, Mars actually looked like a second Earth or maybe was similiar in the farthest possibility. This could mean there was life aswell.

I liked the show Odyssey 5 in which they had the idea that some sort of sentient lifeform evolved on Mars, which destroyed the Earth. The show started with the destruction of Earth and the show's main actors were brought back in time from the future. Great concept, sadly it got fired after the first season -.- So god damn sad
 

Synapse

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This talk about how old do you think the world is reminded me of.

[youtube="ilzuHdlKHPw"]Are We There Yet[/youtube]

Much like a whirlpool. :shrug:
 
A

Anew Leaf

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I think that we get so caught up in our current technology that it blinds us to what can be done without it sometimes.

I saw a show on how it was "obvious" that aliens came to earth because how else can you explain so many societies with giant pyramids, and that they align with the stars in Orion's Belt. Ignoring the actual obvious of "gee a pyramid is the simplest 3-D shape to make" and "the Belt contains 3 of the brightest stars in the sky neatly lined up."
 

KDude

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I used to get into some of this stuff. Even von Daniken is kind of entertaining.. even though he's a kook. At the very least, it's a fun angle for fiction. This was the direction the earliest fantasy writers kind of went with (like Tolkien and Howard), where, unlike D&D, which has newly invented worlds, their stories were about prehistory. That's more intriguing and magical to me. What if our existing civilizations are just rebuilt versions of the old ones, with only a slight resemblance? What if the world was full of knowledge at one point, but all went up in flames like the library of Alexandria? Except, in this case, the library of Alexandria was the whole world. "Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars -- Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west...." (From "The Phoenix and the Sword, Robert E Howard).
 

Totenkindly

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I think that we get so caught up in our current technology that it blinds us to what can be done without it sometimes.

Totally agree. I mean, I still have trouble getting my mind around our ability to create buildings that are over 100 stories tall, and that's using modern equipment. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_sMU-xz5GK...AABg8/LUS8aHQCb8k/s1600/tallest-buildings.jpg)

But I think human beings (and any species) can accomplish a great deal if enough time, money, and power is thrown at the problem. The brute force method can definitely accomplish unbelievable things.

I saw a show on how it was "obvious" that aliens came to earth because how else can you explain so many societies with giant pyramids, and that they align with the stars in Orion's Belt. Ignoring the actual obvious of "gee a pyramid is the simplest 3-D shape to make" and "the Belt contains 3 of the brightest stars in the sky neatly lined up."

Well, it obviously had to be carefully planned out / engineered -- those pyramid blocks are heavy enough that you don't want to be jugging things around on the fly, you want to know exactly where each is going.
 

KDude

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But I think human beings (and any species) can accomplish a great deal if enough time, money, and power is thrown at the problem. The brute force method can definitely accomplish unbelievable things.

And it can all be destroyed just as quick. Even our modern world.

There's an interesting History channel series on this. Life After People. It starts with a scenario of humans being removed from the planet in the present age, and charts down the changes in the environment 20, 30, 80, 200 years down the line. It's kind of surprising what kind of upkeep it takes to keep things running smoothly. There was one telling segment, about an old Mitsubishi coal mining community off the coast of Japan.. It was located on an island, and it had industrial and residential complexes from end to end. Not only did the workers live there, but their families did as well. It also had schools, shops, etc.. Not long after it was built, Mitsubishi decided to cut their investment on coal, and transported the community out of there.. completely abandoning the island. This was 30 years ago. Nowadays, it looks like something out of an apocalyptic film. No one has tampered with it. No demolition has been placed there. It's just been weathered by storms and time. Just in 30 years.

It makes me wonder though what could have been around in some past civilization. If typical weathering can do that in 30 years, then how much over centuries or in the aftermath of catastrophe? You'd never know that they were there after awhile.
 

Lark

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It makes me wonder though what could have been around in some past civilization. If typical weathering can do that in 30 years, then how much over centuries or in the aftermath of catastrophe? You'd never know that they were there after awhile.

Would it be mistaken for religious sites or idols or junk like that? How many things pulled out of archeological digs are really neat carvings for the mantel piece done one summer when the crops were brought in early?
 

KDude

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Would it be mistaken for religious sites or idols or junk like that? How many things pulled out of archeological digs are really neat carvings for the mantel piece done one summer when the crops were brought in early?

Maybe..

I like the last part in this :D :

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6y-jn6jGbM].[/youtube]
 

Lark

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There recently was one of the hardcore new wave athiests who're trying to make the UK a leading athiest/secularist nation on the TV and they visited some digs out in the middle east and described how they thought that the jews were originally polytheists and the whole deal was a lie anyway. They were pulling crap out of the ground and she went to a museum were they had all these little carved characters and this was the evidence. I thought that's crazy, that's like someone doing an excavation on my old house's garden pulling them action figures I lost or which got buried in the garden out and concluding that we were polytheists and the action figures were actually deities.
 

Qlip

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Eh... the Jews were polytheists. There's a lot more to it than some Brits digging up some statues.
 

Qlip

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The Abrahamic faiths are monotheist. Look it up.

Well.. okay it's dumb to dispute that, because that's by definition. But their mythology comes from the polytheistic views of the area.. it was the choosing of one specific God of the pantheon "El" over others, and then eventually venerating it to be the only God that defines Abrahamic religion.
 

Mole

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Abraham and the Three Headed God

It's true chrisianity is an abrahamic religion. It is based on god's command to Abraham to murder his son to test Abraham's obedience.

And it is true christianity is monotheistic but a peculiar form of monotheism where there are three persons in one god.

It's a bit like having our cake and eating it too - it's the kind of montheism we have when we are not having any monotheism.

But only the vulgar would say that just as hinduism has an elephant headed god, christianity has a three headed god.
 
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