Eternal Life or Eternal Afterlife? A Curse or Blessing?

[Octarine]

Now, many people express that they have a fear of death. But what is the alternative? An eternal life?

But how would such a life affect our psyche? We may be able to imagine living for a few hundred years, but an eternity is unimaginably long. Would you find contentment, or would you feel you are trapped in a Sisyphus universe? Is not an eternal life also something that could be feared?

So how does the state of an eternal afterlife differ from this?

The existence of religion in many ways is a result of seeking of contentment with our place within this universe. Infidels at the end of their lives are compelled to accept religion, so that they will fully accept the lives that they have led and be content with their place within this universe and ultimately secure a place in the afterlife.

But if you are at peace within this universe, then why would you need to have an eternal afterlife?

 

[Thisica]

"Eternity" is so overrated. I don't think people actually understand this idea. It's so abstract, it becomes somewhat irrelevant to our daily lives.

 

[Lark]

Now many people express that they have a fear of death. But what is the alternative? An eternal life?

But how would such a life affect our psyche? We may be able to imagine living for a few hundred years, but an eternity is unimaginably long. Would you find contentment, or would you feel you are trapped in a Sisyphus universe? Is not an eternal life also something that could be feared?

So how does the state of an eternal afterlife differ from this?

The existence of religion in many ways is a result of seeking of contentment with our place within this universe. Infidels at the end of their lives are compelled to accept religion, so that they will fully accept the lives that they have led and be content with their place within this universe and ultimately secure a place in the afterlife.

But if you are at peace within this universe, then why would you need to have an eternal afterlife?

I dont believe (as some philosophers do) that the afterlife is a projection or outcome of a projection of the unique consciousness of (some) human minds, if there is indeed an afterlife it exists, it isnt earned, its there irrespective of what you think about it or accept about religion or any other earthly ideas and conventions.

The myth of Sisypus is perhaps a bad one to mention because I believe as Camus did that ultimately we have to imagine Sisypus as happy at his work.

You make a great and good point about the afterlife being a terrible fate for those unprepared and therefore maladjusted to the possibility, its something I've considered for a long time and ultimately my answers are to do with God and developing in a way which is not dominated by strivings, doings, even relatings and instead investing in being in this life or any other existence.

Meister Eckhart wrote, in something which apparently may have influenced some of Clive Barkers writing (though not Hellraiser/Hellbound Heart interestingly) that at the end of life if cosmic beings came to strip away all attachments to this life that depending upon your preparedness or apprehension/reluctance you would see them as either angels or demons/devils. Similarly I believe that depending upon your adjustment to the idea of eternal life you could find it a cruel fate or just reward.

 

[Totenkindly]

"Eternity" is so overrated. I don't think people actually understand this idea. It's so abstract, it becomes somewhat irrelevant to our daily lives.

Agreed. Most people only get as far as "eternal bliss," and that's supposed to be a good thing (versus "eternal pain" or "eternal ennui"), so... people go for it.

When I was five, I was having horrific fears not of death but of "eternity"... because it kept going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going ....

... well, you get the idea.

I remember my mom sitting with me at night while I was sobbing, and I had no way to articulate what I was afraid of, and she had no idea what was wrong with me. Death was just a transition, and defined this life in a comprehensible way, but eternity was indefinite and endless... immensely huge.

Afterlife without end still kind of scares me more than there just being an ending.

 

[Stigmata]

The reality of an afterlife would probably sway me even further towards a nihilistic world view. Nothing would diminish any ability to perceive our existence as sacred living quicker than know it's just a never-ending cycle; Whatever enthusiasm and sense of determination and urgency I gather is from know everything as I understand it is temporal.

 

[Thisica]

Agreed. Most people only get as far as "eternal bliss," and that's supposed to be a good thing (versus "eternal pain" or "eternal ennui"), so... people go for it.

When I was five, I was having horrific fears not of death but of "eternity"... because it kept going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going ....

... well, you get the idea.

I remember my mom sitting with me at night while I was sobbing, and I had no way to articulate what I was afraid of, and she had no idea what was wrong with me. Death was just a transition, and defined this life in a comprehensible way, but eternity was indefinite and endless... immensely huge.

Afterlife without end still kind of scares me more than there just being an ending.

In fact, it's this idea that wants me to throw stuff at the wall! At least death is familiar...though beyond the human imagination. But eternity? Not so much. Not only is it beyond the human imagination, it also comes into direct conflict with reality.

 

[Totenkindly]

In fact, it's this idea that wants me to throw stuff at the wall! At least death is familiar...though beyond the human imagination. But eternity? Not so much. Not only is it beyond the human imagination, it also comes into direct conflict with reality.

Well, I'm not sure that is true.

We know that space/time exists, and time goes forward without ending, and that galaxies are still blasting away from each other at high rates of speed into .... eternal distance. Or at least distances so vast and unmeasurable that they might as well be eternal in terms of our ability to contemplate them.

So I think endlessness is grounded in physical reality.

But I guess you might be talking not about eternity in itself, but eternal heaven/bliss? (And I agree, that is kind of in conflict. People die. Life eventually has bitterness. Growth demands change, and change is painful. We cannot imagine a world without pain, because it's part and parcel of life. So the idea of heaven without all of those dynamics is impossible to imagine, realistically at least.)

 

[Thisica]

Well, I'm not sure that is true.

We know that space/time exists, and time goes forward without ending, and that galaxies are still blasting away from each other at high rates of speed into .... eternal distance. Or at least distances so vast and unmeasurable that they might as well be eternal in terms of our ability to contemplate them.

So I think endlessness is grounded in physical reality.

But I guess you might be talking not about eternity in itself, but eternal heaven/bliss? (And I agree, that is kind of in conflict. People die. Life eventually has bitterness. Growth demands change, and change is painful. We cannot imagine a world without pain, because it's part and parcel of life. So the idea of heaven without all of those dynamics is impossible to imagine, realistically at least.)

Yeah, I did meant the idea of eternity as applied to some afterlife. But to be honest, we don't actually know how the future of the universe will unfold

 

[Eric B]

It's probably a totally different kind of existence, and who says it would even be in space and time as we know it. That's why I liked string theory, which posits (or at least used to posit) a "primeval realm" strings (as themselves, "shards of spacetime) are embedded in that is not space, and has a totally different kind of geometry to it.

Even many Christians, when they speak of "eternity", use it as synonymous with a timeless existence.

 

[Such Irony]

I am unsettled by the thought of my mortality but I'm even more unsettled by eternal life. I'd worry that I'd get to a point where I've seen it all/done it all/know it all and there's nothing left to work towards, nothing more to find out. I'd be extremely bored and restles and there would be no way out.

What I would like is not living forever but a greatly increased lifespan. The life expectancy as it stands now, doesn't seem to be nearly enough time for me to learn and experience everything that I want to.

 

[Robopop]

If the afterlife is a timeless existence, then conscienceness would not exist(assuming conscienceness is a temporal process caused by the brain), to me it's the same as being "dead", a person would not perceive anything. Well any ways I think it would be interesting for the first couple of hundred years, by thousands of years the psyche might begin to suffer, millions of years a person might go completely insane and spend all their time looking and thinking of ways to off themselves.

 

[Lark]

If the afterlife is a timeless existence, then conscienceness would not exist(assuming conscienceness is a temporal process caused by the brain), to me it's the same as being "dead", a person would not perceive anything. Well any ways I think it would be interesting for the first couple of hundred years, by thousands of years the psyche might begin to suffer, millions of years a person might go completely insane and spend all their time looking and thinking of ways to off themselves.

This makes me think about some of the oriental ghost stories that I know about which describe hauntings and malevolent spirits as the "insane" or "mad" dead.

 

[Eric B]

If the afterlife is a timeless existence, then conscienceness would not exist(assuming conscienceness is a temporal process caused by the brain), to me it's the same as being "dead", a person would not perceive anything. Well any ways I think it would be interesting for the first couple of hundred years, by thousands of years the psyche might begin to suffer, millions of years a person might go completely insane and spend all their time looking and thinking of ways to off themselves.

Obviously, we wouldn't be bound to a brain anymore (which is the physical organ that draws data in from the physical world of spacetime). So even the whole notion of "perception" would be different.

 

[guesswho]

But eternity? Not so much. Not only is it beyond the human imagination, it also comes into direct conflict with reality.

Exactly. What is eternity?

It's easy to use the word, and to create some abstract image of something that doesn't end...but. What is that never ending thing? How does it work? How can you measure it's eternity since it will take you an eternity of measuring to reach the conclusion that it's eternal. And we're not eternal. But we aspire to be part of eternal things of which we don't know anything about. We aspire to unity, after death, but what's the guarantee of that unity?


Also, an eternal life, is impossible. Time is not eternal, life can only exist inside time, therefor, life is not eternal. Suns die giving birth to other suns, planets and stuff, they recycle themselves. And when they recycle themselves, throughout time, new chemical elements will appear.

Which is fascinating.

 

[Lark]

It makes me feel good about this life when I contrast it with eternity, however bad this one is, however bad memories you may have eventually it'll all not matter. Etermity is a long time.

 

[Ginkgo]

The only way I can visualize eternity is through a cycle. Living like that would eventually grow to be like Bill Murray's "Groundhog Day". I'd get sick of it, probably improve myself to find the highest plateau of potential, explore the options, then I would want to rest for good.

According to the Kübler-Ross Model, people occupy some stage of grief when contemplating death. The healthiest form, imo., is acceptance. I've known a few people who have trouble even getting to the depression stage, and will bargain and fight ceaselessly for something they're attached to. If you ask me, a large clump of people practicing the Judeo-Christian tradition fixate of bargaining for eternal life, and will base their whole ethical framework on it. There are also a few people who find solace in the same way by "giving it all to God".

I doubt very many people who believe in the after life the way the Bible describes it have wondered what they'll do after they get there, and whether they'll be content that way. If there is a heaven with eternal bliss, would bliss fade without agony to hold its hand? If there is a hell, would we grow callous to the agony? Sounds like someone is trying to pull someone's leg.

 

[Ginkgo]

Obviously, we wouldn't be bound to a brain anymore (which is the physical organ that draws data in from the physical world of spacetime). So even the whole notion of "perception" would be different.

Do you believe in the dualist philosophy of the mind?

 

[Lark]

The only way I can visualize eternity is through a cycle. Living like that would eventually grow to be like Bill Murray's "Groundhog Day". I'd get sick of it, probably improve myself to find the highest plateau of potential, explore the options, then I would want to rest for good.

According to the Kübler-Ross Model, people occupy some stage of grief when contemplating death. The healthiest form, imo., is acceptance. I've known a few people who have trouble even getting to the depression stage, and will bargain and fight ceaselessly for something they're attached to. If you ask me, a large clump of people practicing the Judeo-Christian tradition fixate of bargaining for eternal life, and will base their whole ethical framework on it. There are also a few people who find solace in the same way by "giving it all to God".

I doubt very many people who believe in the after life the way the Bible describes it have wondered what they'll do after they get there, and whether they'll be content that way. If there is a heaven with eternal bliss, would bliss fade without agony to hold its hand? If there is a hell, would we grow callous to the agony? Sounds like someone is trying to pull someone's leg.

I doubt it, the curse of eternity idea which people have described in this thread IS hell, while the eternity as a blessing idea IS heaven, it will be either as a consequence of what you do in life.

 

[Santosha]

That's why I liked string theory, which posits (or at least used to posit) a "primeval realm" strings (as themselves, "shards of spacetime) are embedded in that is not space, and has a totally different kind of geometry to it.

Me too!

 

[Santosha]

Existing for eternity is not a difficult idea for me to grasp. It is much more difficult for me to comprehend NOT existing, in any way, shape, or form.. consciously.

I also believe that in the next 100 yrs, science will find a way to measure consciousness outside memory/brain.