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  1. #11
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Well said.

  2. #12
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    I find that this point about the role of reason is very difficult to prove either way. I do not agree with your view, but I can understand how your points support it. I am thinking also of the fact that reason and imagination has been used to form rather foreign concepts that we have never experienced, and can only attempt to understand in abstract terms. Think of wormholes, singularity, etc. The more I think about the logical process, I more I find the line between reason and experience blurred. Most reason is simply a restatement of evidence drawn experience, but there are some things that experience cannot be applied to (in any way that I can think of, that is).
    Reason is the cage of the rational mind. All things derived from reason can be disproved in an instance of experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #13
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Reason is the cage of the rational mind. All things derived from reason can be disproved in an instance of experience.
    And then that proves that the reasoning was faulty. What is the significance?

  4. #14
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    And then that proves that the reasoning was faulty. What is the significance?
    Reason is dependent on experience. True, the fault was not in the system, but the information that was put into the system. However, that means the outcomes of the system are only as good at the information that goes into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #15
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Reason is dependent on experience. True, the fault was not in the system, but the information that was put into the system. However, that means the outcomes of the system are only as good at the information that goes into it.
    But reason can improve greatly on the evidence gathered from experience. Just because your experience alone would lead you to incorrect conclusions does not mean that it is still that way when filtered with reason. Granted, most reason is learned from other people, but it had to start somewhere. Reason can be used to purify the conclusion so that the bias of the experience is diminished.

  6. #16
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    But reason can improve greatly on the evidence gathered from experience. Just because your experience alone would lead you to incorrect conclusions does not mean that it is still that way when filtered with reason. Granted, most reason is learned from other people, but it had to start somewhere. Reason can be used to purify the conclusion so that the bias of the experience is diminished.
    All reason is learned. You aren't born knowing how to reason. The very process of reasoning is formed from experience. Other than that, I agree with what you have said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #17
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Reason is the cage of the rational mind. All things derived from reason can be disproved in an instance of experience.
    Could you experience a square-circle?

  8. #18
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Could you experience a square-circle?
    Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean I couldn't experience something that would disprove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #19
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean I couldn't experience something that would disprove it.
    Experience could disprove what?

    Are you saying it is possible to experience a square-circle?

  10. #20
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    All reason is learned. You aren't born knowing how to reason. The very process of reasoning is formed from experience. Other than that, I agree with what you have said.
    I guess we're mostly on the same page then, except I think that there is an ideal reasoning that no human has truly reached; but some of the greatest minds have been able to reason largely above their own plane of experience, and form concepts that defy reasoning that stems only from experience. Very few people could do that, though.

    BTW, are studying philosophy and/or debate currently? You seem quite good at this sort of thing, and expressing your views coherently with precise wording (more precise than mine, I admit).

    Our "debate" seems to have fizzled rapidly...we need some more people to come and liven it up. Let's here some fresh approaches!

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