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View Poll Results: Would you worship a vain creator?

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  • Yes

    9 37.50%
  • No

    15 62.50%
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by JediVulcanisim View Post
    Many different religions have the same mantra that we were created in the image of an unknown creator.
    Usually, that same unknown creator requires us to worship it.
    Would that not make said creator vain?
    This is mistaken, at least in my tradition it is, mankind has an innate spiritual impulse, one which I dont believe can be explained through the symbolic revolution's stage in the evolution/development of the brain and mind, so we seek God, although if you are in a non-theist culture it could be framed differently. For many this takes the shape of worship, it is not because it has been mandated by a jealous deity, that is the mistaken authoritarian import of anthropomorphic thinking from an earlier stage in mankind's development.

    In my own tradition a very radical thing has happened, the deity has reciprocated in the search, while man has been searching for God in many different, nuanced ways, God has been searching for man, first creating covenants with one people, then visiting himself in person, the person of his son, and suffering one of the most horrible of fates I can imagine in the process.

    The life and ministry of Jesus, God incarnate, if full of good guidance, most of it derivative of the earlier traditions of God's choosen people about how to be happy and satisfy the spiritual impulse we all share. There's a great deal of other sources besides the bible and many of those who've argued about it have been mistaken to do so, there's a great many Christian paths and they all have considerations of virtue and consequences which will be ignored or abandoned at the world's peril. None of it strikes me as being about honouring a vane or authoritarian sky king.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mephistopheles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Well the hypothetical premise of the thread is that the creator exists. So if we are going by the typical western or eastern monotheistic deities, it is infinitely more good than any human. So it really doesn't matter what you can or cannot see, it's a fact regardless and you would just be thinking beyond your station. It being incomprehensibly beyond humanity renders trying to understand its motives a futile endeavour, beyond knowing it is infinitely good in its morality and knows everything there is to know, meaning whatever it asks is whatever should be done for the greatest good.

    Plus, few gods theorised force anyone to worship them, if they did that then the fact we aren't worshipping them is proof they don't exist. It's more like they request worship, or it's an inevitable response for a person who has glimpsed at such a being's nature.
    Just because he's the creator, that doesn't mean that he wants what is best for us. In fact, it's not even stated here that he's automatically omniscient or omnipotent. You take a premise for granted that isn't stated here. And I personally see "worship me or burn in hell" as a kind of forcing.

    If this god doesn't put pressure on me to worship him etc., then it's something different. But the vain is a requirement here in this thread.
    They say I only think in form of crunching numbers.....
    -Fall Out Boy

  3. #13
    Oberon
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    The Creator is the Creator, and immune to your judgments.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
    Just because he's the creator, that doesn't mean that he wants what is best for us. In fact, it's not even stated here that he's automatically omniscient or omnipotent. You take a premise for granted that isn't stated here. And I personally see "worship me or burn in hell" as a kind of forcing.

    If this god doesn't put pressure on me to worship him etc., then it's something different. But the vain is a requirement here in this thread.
    I said "if we're going by the typical western..." meaning those premises aren't taken for granted. Three people, including you, have mentioned the Christian god or implied it, and one has mentioned an eastern god, all of which have those traits I mentioned, hence its relevance.

    The question in the OP means vanity is not taken for granted. It's been asked of us whether such a creator is vain, hence my original response.

    Finally "worship me or burn in hell" usually is a simplified version of the idea that Christian or Abrahamic hell is a place where god is not present. So entering hell is a logical consequence of turning away from god. Not always the case though, as Abrahamic religions are broad in their variation, but it is the majority view I think.

  5. #15

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    The keys to hell are held by the inmates and the doors are locked from the inside.

    Hell is being seperate from God, seperate from everything and everyone. Forever. That prospect is worse than oblivion.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    If vanity was a divine quality to strive for, then yes. Otherwise no. So probably not.

  7. #17
    Member JediVulcanisim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The Creator is the Creator, and immune to your judgments.
    Lol, if immunity is a lack of response, then yes.
    Jedi Code (revised by Moi)

    With emotion one must search for peace.
    With the understanding of ignorance one must search for knowledge.
    In passion one must seek serenity.
    In chaos, one must search for harmony.
    In death one may become one with The Force.

  8. #18
    Member JediVulcanisim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Unknown creator? No. But God is not unknowable.
    Then explain to me which god you refer and all things associated with said god.
    Jedi Code (revised by Moi)

    With emotion one must search for peace.
    With the understanding of ignorance one must search for knowledge.
    In passion one must seek serenity.
    In chaos, one must search for harmony.
    In death one may become one with The Force.

  9. #19
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Sitting at the shrine.

    As I ewrite and you eread, we are sitting in front of our shrine to worship.

    The odd thing is that not only did we create the shrine in front of us now, but the same shrine is creating us now.

    But of course we are numb to this dialectical relationship for we are hypnotised by the content.

    In particular we are wondering whether we worship vanity. But what could be more vain than this?

  10. #20
    Member JediVulcanisim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    In particular we are wondering whether we worship vanity. But what could be more vain than this?
    Wait... What is the vanity you speak of? the vanity of wondering about worshiping vanity, or the vanity of worshiping the vanity?
    Jedi Code (revised by Moi)

    With emotion one must search for peace.
    With the understanding of ignorance one must search for knowledge.
    In passion one must seek serenity.
    In chaos, one must search for harmony.
    In death one may become one with The Force.

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