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View Poll Results: Do you think the world would be better if everyone were an atheist?

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  • Yes

    25 25.25%
  • No

    60 60.61%
  • Other - please explain

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Thread: Atheists:

  1. #51
    ..... Intricate Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    I don't know what kind of people you have run into and what path of reasoning you follow when you interpreting the world around you. But from my point of view I recognize what you so eloquently put as a celebration of ugliness and hopelessness as something equally vital to the world as beauty and hope. It can be the physical manifestation of a person catharsis.

    You need to dismount that high horse of yours and pry open those dull eyelids and realize that you should not be throwing out apologies in a thread as much as apologizing to yourself for being close minded.
    I personally don't see any value in celebrating ugliness or hopelessness. However, the reality of this world is that lots of people in it are suffering because they are living in extreme poverty, are sick, in pain, having mental problems, having emotional anguish, are lonely, etc.. Calling this to others' attention to try to make changes in the world may involve showing their suffering through art, and it may indeed be ugly. It can usually be portrayed in a way that moves us and connects us with our humanity, though. (In my opinion).

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    I personally don't see any value in celebrating ugliness or hopelessness. However, the reality of this world is that lots of people in it are suffering because they are living in extreme poverty, are sick, in pain, having mental problems, having emotional anguish, are lonely, etc.. Calling this to others' attention to try to make changes in the world may involve showing their suffering through art, and it may indeed be ugly. It can usually be portrayed in a way that moves us and connects us with our humanity, though. (In my opinion).
    Case in point, honey coating reality. Which one of us is really trying to deny our humanity.

    On an off note, I recommend that you read Anton LaVey's The Satanic Bible. That dude sure likes to embrace his own humanity and all the urges that comes along with it.

  3. #53
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Do you think it would be better if everyone were an atheist?

    (please explain)
    Obviously variety has it's purpose. (So no, I do not think it would be better if everyone were an atheist)

    However I think that in the future more and more people will stop believing in God, or at least in the classical God, and as long as humanity will have unanswered questions, there will be the God answer. (so that is theoretically as long as humanity will exist)

    So basically unless we find answers to questions such as: What is outside our Universe? or What was before the Big Bang? Or why are the laws which govern our universe so perfect (apparently)? some people will always answer them with God.
    God created the universe
    God is responsible for the Big Bang.
    God made the laws of physics.

    So, not only that the world would not be better off without a God, but it will NEVER be without a God, even though the number of believers will be reduced.

  4. #54
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    I personally don't see any value in celebrating ugliness or hopelessness.
    It appears that ugliness, suffering and hopeless artforms don't solely reside with atheists. Which came first, the cart or the horse? How often do you see this symbol of suffering and martyrdom depicted in theist art or pretty much stamped indelibly...everywhere?


  5. #55
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    The atheists I have met in the art world honestly fit my description pretty well. Maybe it attracts a subset of people that isn't reflective of atheists as a whole, though. To those atheists who do not conform to my stereotyped, pre-conceived notions, I apologize.
    My guess is that the reason for this is that artists might be more inclined to be honest in the outworking of their beliefs as represented by their work.

    It's not that atheists can't love truth and beauty. It's that they have no reason to love truth and beauty. It's just a preference.

    That being said I actually object to the phrasing of the question in the OP. I think a appropriate and precise phrasing would be:
    Do you think the world would be preferable to you if everyone were an atheist?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    It's not that atheists can't love truth and beauty. It's that they have no reason to love truth and beauty.
    I do not understand this conclusion. How did you reach it?
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  7. #57
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    It appears that ugliness, suffering and hopeless artforms don't solely reside with atheists. Which came first, the cart or the horse? How often do you see this symbol of suffering and martyrdom depicted in theist art or pretty much stamped indelibly...everywhere?

    Suffering and ugliness is present in this image and others like it. But, that is not only what is present. There is a reason why such images undeniably bring hope to millions.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #58
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I do not understand this conclusion. How did you reach it?
    I've discussed this before here and here
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #59
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I've discussed this before here and here
    I don't see God validating truth and beauty or morality as any better or making those concepts any more true than personal or social interpretation. It just means God random and arbitrarily assigned goodness or beauty to ideas or things. It basically means if God changed his mind or decided differently and said "skinning people alive is moral and beautiful" then that'd be moral and beautiful. It's no less random or pointless than any other basis for those concepts.

    And I think that, like religion, a lot of the black in atheism or humanism comes with white too. Life is brief and not lasting, but at least we can respect it as more than some bullshit application to a good afterlife, but as an end of itself. Hell, I think I'd find the idea of killing another life form easier if I thought there were an afterlife. After all, it's kind of a favor.


    As for the central question: I'd say I can't know. Probably not. The world would be better, maybe, if religious fervor were a little more controlled for some of the more extreme people. I guess I could also say if religion didn't close off some people's minds, but I guess that applies to any ideology.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    That being said I actually object to the phrasing of the question in the OP. I think a appropriate and precise phrasing would be:
    Do you think the world would be preferable to you if everyone were an atheist?
    She asked the question she wanted the answer to. The subjective opinion(s) she is looking for is pretty clear with her use of you, as in: "Do you think it would be better if everyone were an atheist?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I've discussed this before here and here
    What I know is that I am agnostic and love truth and beauty, so my reality is antithetical to your conclusion. There are many unstated presuppositions filling the gaps in your discursive, linear (rather than empirical) position, so that there are virtually zero substantive experiences to counter. I still do not know how you reached your conclusion.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

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