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View Poll Results: Do you think the world would be better if everyone were an atheist?

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  • Yes

    25 25.25%
  • No

    60 60.61%
  • Other - please explain

    14 14.14%
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Thread: Atheists:

  1. #271
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    Perhaps I didn't word that correctly. It should be more like: The more universal qualities of the bible are being taught more and more, and the ignorance that once fueled Christian religions is being washed away by those who show extreme intolerance for such equality.
    I think what you call universal qualities of the Bible are merely contemporary interpretations of it. They will be different 100 years in the future, as they were different 100 years in the past.

  2. #272
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think what you call universal qualities of the Bible are merely contemporary interpretations of it. They will be different 100 years in the future, as they were different 100 years in the past.
    By universal I don't mean "all encompassing" in the sense that it surrounds, but that it cuts through. That singular thread of morality. I think that's coming to the surface. Interpretation of that thread will change as necessity sees fit, but it will always be within that core principle. It's not that the concept changes, but the object it is directed towards, because we aren't permanent.

    That being said I don't disagree with you.

  3. #273
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I respect that, as long as you give yourself credit and are proud for the things you achieve and not God, I think its ok. I need by my own definition my coffee machine, without it I am only half-human half-troll
    I give myself partial credit, and while I am sometimes proud I try not to be. Prideful attitudes are arguably accompanied by insecurities and despair. Despair when you take too much credit for the things you regret instead of letting go. My relationship with the Truth is one of both awareness and growing out of old habits, whether they be habits of regret, grudges, failures or accumulating too much information. Not letting go tends to cause cognitive dissonance. Instead, I try to penetrate challenges as they come by acknowledging them for what they are in as pure an understanding as I can have; at least pure enough to determine what the best course of action is.

    Usually, when one thinks of morality, they also think of trying to eradicate, or at least contain, immoral behavior. Attempting to change the truth is impossible. It is true that we are all born with an apparatus that allows us to create our own problems and overcome them as well. We overcome them by going through them and shifting the way we view them instead of trying to patch them up with some pretty band-aid.

    When's the last time you saw an idea to change as aspect of reality that actually worked? They only serve to give us temporary happiness because we are proud of our supposed accomplishments.

  4. #274
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I give myself partial credit, and while I am sometimes proud I try not to be. Prideful attitudes are arguably accompanied by insecurities and despair. Despair when you take too much credit for the things you regret instead of letting go. My relationship with the Truth is one of both awareness and growing out of old habits, whether they be habits of regret, grudges, failures or accumulating too much information. Not letting go tends to cause cognitive dissonance. Instead, I try to penetrate challenges as they come by acknowledging them for what they are in as pure an understanding as I can have; at least pure enough to determine what the best course of action is.

    Usually, when one thinks of morality, they also think of trying to eradicate, or at least contain, immoral behavior. Attempting to change the truth is impossible. It is true that we are all born with an apparatus that allows us to create our own problems and overcome them as well. We overcome them by going through them and shifting the way we view them instead of trying to patch them up with some pretty band-aid.

    When's the last time you saw an idea to change as aspect of reality that actually worked? They only serve to give us temporary happiness because we are proud of our supposed accomplishments.
    You said that very well and I agree with everything except for the reality part. To me our reality is man made. Their may be natural laws ruling our Universe but since God cant be proven to be one of them, he falls into the other huge category which is peoples reality.

    People invented religion, for a Christian its God, for a muslim its Allah, for a Hindu its Vishnu; you can see here that human reality always has the need to work towards a goal. This is our real reality and it was postulated by people like Descartes in the time of enlightenment that we need to recognize that we are shitting on ourselves.

    You know, I am human like anyone else and when I had a hard time in my life, like having to write a tough exam, I sometimes had a talk with God for a second. It gave me strength to talk to him in that moment or it just relived my sorrows. I do not blame people for doing that as long as they recognize that the religious reality is a man made invention, just like our social reality, our economical and political systems, our technological and artistic creations. Without mankind our reality wouldnt exist.

    Imagine you had a friend born blind, how could you ever explain to him the color blue ? And under that premise, you dont even know if that what we see thru our physical eyes, is the real world or if it may look completly different. Like for example that in reality no colors exist and everything is black and its only the surface of things that does reflect the light and appears to us as colors. Imo humans know as much about reality like worms now about spacetravel
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #275
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You said that very well and I agree with everything except for the reality part. To me our reality is man made. Their may be natural laws ruling our Universe but since God cant be proven to be one of them, he falls into the other huge category which is peoples reality.

    People invented religion, for a Christian its God, for a muslim its Allah, for a Hindu its Vishnu; you can see here that human reality always has the need to work towards a goal. This is our real reality and it was postulated by people like Descartes in the time of enlightenment that we need to recognize that we are shitting on ourselves.

    You know, I am human like anyone else and when I had a hard time in my life, like having to write a tough exam, I sometimes had a talk with God for a second. It gave me strength to talk to him in that moment or it just relived my sorrows. I do not blame people for doing that as long as they recognize that the religious reality is a man made invention, just like our social reality, our economical and political systems, our technological and artistic creations. Without mankind our reality wouldnt exist.

    Imagine you had a friend born blind, how could you ever explain to him the color blue ? And under that premise, you dont even know if that what we see thru our physical eyes, is the real world or if it may look completly different. Like for example that in reality no colors exist and everything is black and its only the surface of things that does reflect the light and appears to us as colors. Imo humans know as much about reality like worms now about spacetravel
    One cannot have intellectual honesty without asserting that they believe in something they hold to be true. If one asserts denial, they not only contradict their line of reasoning, but also willfully cut themselves off from reality. I suspect that most people who assert denial secretly indulge in belief of some sort.

    Part of understanding the truth is also understanding others' perspectives and interpretations of the truth. We're all in this together. Pride keeps us from understanding others; even if we disagree with them we can also agree to disagree after understanding why they believe what they believe. That is only respectful and loving the same way you would want to be loved, I would hope.

    Certainly a blind man has his own perspective on things; each of us has a personal awareness of a higher reality than ourselves. We turn ugly when we assert our reality is the highest - that is egocentrism. Even worms have access to things never before seen by humans.

    I think understand where you are coming from. I've had the exact same thoughts. I think our highest goal, as a group of people in harmony, is first and foremost understanding, because without understanding we can't understand our goals.

  6. #276
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I see the fun in this. I know you and I live in the same world where there are a lot of religions, but I haven't noticed anyone force feeding me religion, lolz, but then I'm not easy to force feed. When the Mormons come to my door, I enjoy a friendly debate over iced tea. They stopped coming by. :C
    I used to do that too. Same results.
    But I did learn a lot about their witnessing strategy and what parts of the Bible they knew little about.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses are cute. I was shoveling out my car once two winters ago, all by myself -- it was buried on the street -- and watched them coming down the block, going door to door while people were stuck in their houses. They must have been young, in the mid-20's. (Well, to me, now, that's young.) I could tell they were watching me the whole time, thinking, "Oh, gee, there's a poor woman struggling to get her car cleared off; we don't feel like helping, but God wants us to help people; we should just do the right thing, but we don't want to and aren't sure what to do!" I just kept shoveling.

    Finally they got to me, said hi, and one of them extended a very hesitant offer to help. Unfortunately for me, at that point, they had taken their sweet old time and I had basically shoveled everything I needed to in order to get out, so I just thanked them for offering. I wasn't really annoyed or anything, I had found it just good-naturedly funny because I just KNEW what was going through their heads and then was watching struggle with it.

    Is that a tangent? Or am I just pushing this conversation into the more practical realms? I think it's ironic that, whatever beliefs we have, in the end to me it really comes down to whether you consider other people to be within your own ego boundaries and thus worth contributing to or else you just continue to go through life business as usual. I don't really care whether it's an atheist or a religious person, all I really see in the end is how they live and what choices they make. People are not omniscient; our knowledge will always be partial, and sometimes even wrong. But our range of choices doesn't really change, and our actions can be the same regardless.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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