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View Poll Results: Do you think the world would be better if everyone were an atheist?

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  • Yes

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  • No

    60 60.61%
  • Other - please explain

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Thread: Atheists:

  1. #231
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    But what if you happen to believe in the wrong god? Then you didn't only lose heaven, but also time and energy on it... What if you restrict from sex to please our Christian god, you die and you meet a fertility godess who's very angry at you? You didn't only fail to please the godess, you also missed out on the sex...
    (okay, didn't see the follow-up posts. Tinker said it well. It's indeed Pascal's wager; and I just picked one problem out of it)
    that's an unavoidable risk, but Christianity seems to have the most believable God
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  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    But what if you happen to believe in the wrong god? Then you didn't only lose heaven, but also time and energy on it... What if you restrict from sex to please our Christian god, you die and you meet a fertility godess who's very angry at you? You didn't only fail to please the godess, you also missed out on the sex...
    (okay, didn't see the follow-up posts. Tinker said it well. It's indeed Pascal's wager; and I just picked one problem out of it)
    lolz, no, no, no. You have that skewed. Hey, I thought you were married Tamske? It's scandalous, but I'm curious, who else are you [or aren't you] sleeping with where you're potentially going to piss off "a fertility goddess" in the sky?

    Seriously, Jesus was crucified for our sins. There will be no judgment or condemnation for those in Christ; regardless, of who you slept with. Furthermore, when you have a relationship with God, you naturally want to obey. It's the same type of respectful relationship one might have in a monogamous marriage/relationship or respect to obey one's parents. It's a natural desire to do right by the other person.

  3. #233
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    that's an unavoidable risk, but Christianity seems to have the most believable God
    Really?
    A father-god who gets a virgin girl pregnant? Who is the same as his son? A son-god who has to die for our sins? Can't an all-powerful god not just twist the rules, instead of sacrificing himself to himself? Can't an all-merciful god not just say, when he's here on Earth, that illness comes from bacteria, and give some useful hints as to how to brew vaccins and antibiotics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    lolz, no, no, no. You have that skewed. Hey, I thought you were married Tamske? It's scandalous, but I'm curious, who else are you [or aren't you] sleeping with where you're potentially going to piss off "a fertility goddess" in the sky?
    Didn't I say before I was an atheist? I'm not pleasing a fertility godess any more than I'm pleasing the Christian god. Please. I'm married, I'm NOT commiting adultery, and I'm doing that because I'm a trustworthy human being. Because I commited to my hubby and I take that commitment seriously. Because I respect my husband, because he's a human just like me, and he deserves my respect. Not because I'm afraid of displeasing a creature I only know from hearsay.
    Seriously, Jesus was crucified for our sins.
    Really? How do you know this? Can you show, rather than tell, me why I should believe you?
    There will be no judgment or condemnation for those in Christ; regardless, of who you slept with. Furthermore, when you have a relationship with God, you naturally want to obey. It's the same type of respectful relationship one might have in a monogamous marriage/relationship or respect to obey one's parents. It's a natural desire to do right by the other person.
    I'm suspecting you took my post way too literally. I just gave an example of a Pascal's wager ("let's believe just in case") might go wrong. What if I believe in Christ, just to get to the right side after death, and it's Odin there to judge me?
    How can I know for sure that I have to worship Christ and not Odin, not Astarte, not Allah, not...?
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  4. #234
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    Yes I'm not sure why anyone would say the virgin birth is believable in this day and age. My cousin was raised in an even more religious home than I was (my uncle married a woman whose family was VERY religious) and at the age of eleven she said to me shyly one night, "you know, I really have a problem with believing that whole virgin thing."

    What struck me about it as a teenager was how sadistic it was for a God to basically rape a virgin, subject her to public humiliation and possible rejection by her finace AND perhaps even a public stoning, and then force her to go through childbirth without ever having experienced the pleasure of sex, plus having the extreme pain that would be involved with the hymen being broken that way? WTF? WHAT KIND OF WOMAN HATING PIECE OF SHIT GOD IS THIS? GIVE ME A BREAK.

    And they all kind of sound like that...you know, Islam and their corral of virgins in the sky and burqas...it's just a bunch of social control shit.

    I don't think I ever would have bought into any of the theistic religions had I not been raised heavily in a religious environment because it seems so ridiculous to me now, and I marvel that I ever believed it so strongly. Brainwashing during the formative years is a powerful thing, never doubt that.

  5. #235
    Senior Member NegativeZero's Avatar
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    No. There's literally no reason to think so.
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  6. #236
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    A father-god who gets a virgin girl pregnant? Who is the same as his son? A son-god who has to die for our sins? Can't an all-powerful god not just twist the rules, instead of sacrificing himself to himself? Can't an all-merciful god not just say, when he's here on Earth, that illness comes from bacteria, and give some useful hints as to how to brew vaccins and antibiotics?
    Typically it's about Essentialism. The moral code is not "chosen" by god, it flows from god's nature. You can still think god is sadistic for having a certain nature; but really, it's like saying, "Well, why DO children get scarred when parents verbally abuse them? Can't we change it so that parents can verbally abuse their kids but it doesn't mess them up?" The morality is inherent to the situation and people in question, it's not an arbitrary thing but flows from essence. The results of "sinful behavior" thus are not arbitrary either, they are naturally generated by the "sinful behavior."

    So it's a pretty widespread argument in Christianity that morality flows out of god's character. He might also be considered "omnipotent" which makes it sound like he can do anything he liked, but I typically understood that as merely having control over physical creation and things created within it; what he is not free to do according to the theology is act against his own character.

    I guess the notion of redemptive sacrifice IS god's way (within the theology) of acknowledging reality (rather than just changing it) and yet finding a work-around.

    That's my understanding of the doctrine, anyhoo.
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  7. #237
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    that's an unavoidable risk, but Christianity seems to have the most believable God
    I'll bet a Moslem, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Hindu, etc., etc. would say the exact same thing. It seems obvious to me that if you are deist and you find one god/belief system more believable than another you'd adopt that god/belief system. Why would anyone adopt what they consider to be system of beliefs with a lower probability of being "true" than another.

    I suspect that statement is more than a little culturally influenced.
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  8. #238
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    @Tamske, thanks for your response. I prompted you to clarify your point because I don't think you realized how your example came across to the common nerd that likes to over-analyze these things. :p

    I understand that you're not trying to advocate immoral behavior for the sake of "do what feels good". Regardless of whether or not there’s a God, we're accountable to ourselves. Drugs, sex: there are physical consequences in the 'here and now' for our sins (i.e., health problems). Your example seemed like a bogus example that didn't fit into the context of your own life (since I knew you were married) or what the majority in society would consider moral. So basically, I don’t think it matters what ones spiritual beliefs are because most people understand the worldly dangers of being sexually promiscuous.

    How did I come to know Jesus? I don't need any further justification to believe in the unseen when I set out on journey to find the truth. I set out "open" to the possibility of God and eventually my heart found him in the midst of the storm. I'm not here to judge or prove that to anyone, as each person must walk their own path in life and do their own exploration. Though, I am always happy to share my experience and love for the awesome God that created us.

    I think what @Elfboy said makes sense because the Bible (God's word) tells the whole story, if one reads it in its entirety. The Christian God (Jesus) is the only God that makes provisions for the redemption of mankind from sin. Being an ENTP, that makes the most sense to me and I appreciate God's creativity there. It's as if he's trying to teach us (and perhaps the angels) something through his own actions. I find it very fascinating how God created us because he wants a relationship with us (a family) and he wants us to want to know him with our own free wills. Not by force.

    As for the virgin, the cross: I see a very creative, humble God that tasted life and death "as man", for man. It doesn't need to line up with my 'ideals' of what an almighty God should do. It's Gods unique and perfect plan. Even though I have so many questions, my Fe tells me that I should respect the ones that made me (i.e., God, my parents); regardless of logic or how I feel.

  9. #239
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    I wonder if it would comfort atheists to believe that God wasn't a person, but a thing.

  10. #240
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    I wonder if it would comfort atheists to believe that God wasn't a person, but a thing.
    How would such a god be defined?

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