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  1. #11
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    unless they are attempting to deny or obscure the second statement
    Yes, these are the people to whom the OP refers. The types of people who use that understanding, that we are all self motivated, to somehow draw the conclusion that a selfless action is not substantively different than a selfish one.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    your complaint about people in a philosophy sub-forum who deny the existence of selfless actions is unwarranted
    Shall I assume that your emphasis on the word philosophy means that you believe I misplaced this thread? Feel free to request a change of venue from one of the mods, I won't object. Alternatively, feel free to not waste your time.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    This reminds me of the short dialogue in which I said that philosophy is mostly psychology and you gave a textbook definition of both terms.

  3. #13
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    This reminds me of the short dialogue in which I said that philosophy is mostly psychology and you gave a textbook definition of both terms.
    I'd be interested in seeing this dialogue for some context. I am very often wrong, and am also argumentative for the sake of arguing, so perhaps it was one of those times? Do you recall what thread?

    Edit: I currently believe there are substantial differences between the two disciplines, and so such a statement would probably still provoke disagreement from me.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I'd be interested in seeing this dialogue for some context. I am very often wrong, and am also argumentative for the sake of arguing, so perhaps it was one of those times? Do you recall what thread?
    It was in Vent and lasted one minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Edit: I currently believe there are substantial differences between the two disciplines, and so such a statement would probably still provoke disagreement from me.
    That much was clear even then.

  5. #15
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I dont see the connection between selflessness and luck to understand why they need to be named in one system.

    The existance of selflessness is a matter of definition. You can for example say that someone who sacrifrices himself to rescue another was following his own motive to rescue others. It's kinda stupid to discuss that in detail, yet some people like that, so I leave it open to them. I dont care.

    Luck exists in form of randomnity if quantum physics are true. If not it doesnt exist, from what we know until now.

    I found the creation of a new word that is "pseuds" to fuel the fire for discussion very distasteful.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Luck has to exist, I wouldn't have gotten this far in life without it.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #17
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    quod erat demonstrandum
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  8. #18
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    I agree completely with your OP-- both do exist on their own. I think it's possible to "make your own luck," but as you say, since luck is by definition beyond our control, that might be a bit of a misnomer. I usually refer to it as "rowing out to meet the ship" instead of "waiting for it to come in."
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  9. #19
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    It's always the best method to settle for less by giving it a nice name
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I dont see the connection between selflessness and luck to understand why they need to be named in one system.
    I'm not sure what you mean here. To be clear, I was not establishing a connection between them, except to say that they are commonly brought up by "pseuds" to interject into a conversation. For example, if you and I were discussing how selfish a common friend of ours is, a pseud might interject that "we are all selfish."

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    The existance of selflessness is a matter of definition. You can for example say that someone who sacrifrices himself to rescue another was following his own motive to rescue others. It's kinda stupid to discuss that in detail, yet some people like that, so I leave it open to them. I dont care.
    You are correct, it is indeed a matter of definition. There are those who would wish to have selflessness be a term which applies to no one, by virtue of the fact that everyone falls under the definition of selfish. I say this is a foolish way to define these terms, as they use their utility.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Luck exists in form of randomnity if quantum physics are true. If not it doesnt exist, from what we know until now.
    Luck exists not so much because there exists randomness, but because an individual has the perception of randomness, e.g. imperfect information.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I found the creation of a new word that is "pseuds" to fuel the fire for discussion very distasteful.
    I would agree, it is not the most tasteful of terms, but I am not the most tasteful of individuals. I appreciate the use of boorish vernacular when making claims about general types of people because, well, it is my custom to refrain from such impoliteness when talking with particular individuals. Over time, holding one's tongue becomes a burden which, for us weaker individuals, demands reprieve lest we die a little on the inside. By using words such as pseud, I can unleash my frustrations at nobody in particular.

    Edit: Actually, my use of the term "pseud" seems very apt in this discussion, since per its dictionary definition it refers to someone who is "intellectually or socially pretentious." Wouldn't you say that a person who interjects in a manner akin to that which I gave in my example would be considered a pseud?
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