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  1. #51
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    ...

    So, the doctrine preceded the preference? God... exists?
    Servitude existed prior to Christian religion. Christian religion like any other expansionist corporation would use the same tools to "herd their sheep". The "God...exists" conclusion would be a logical fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You win!
    True. But then, you're not much challenge.

    Women shouldn't be ashamed of their bodies and if taking nude pics helps them in a "hair of the dog" way, good for them. Same goes for any men who suffer something similar. This is under the assumption that these pics are kept private. If they choose to share the pics with others, there might be negative consequences to their actions since people can be critical, provide insufficient validation or worse yet, share them with others.

  2. #52
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Hey since we're on Nietzsche and mind health, I'll have to add one of my favorite quotes of his:
    A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. - Friedrich Nietzsche
    Anecdotal evidence. There's been some pretty "sharp tacks" who do hold religious views, so perhaps motivation for holding such views plays a part in how things go and whether they experience cognitive dissonance on a wide-scale level. It's not the fact they hold such views in themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by metaphor
    Women shouldn't be ashamed of their bodies and if taking nude pics helps them in a "hair of the dog" way, good for them. Same goes for any men who suffer something similar. This is under the assumption that these pics are kept private. If they choose to share the pics with others, there might be negative consequences to their actions since people can be critical, provide insufficient validation or worse yet, share them with others.
    I'm typically open to ideas such as this, I think it can be valuable for some people depending on the specifics of their situation. But you do well to point out the potential risk involved, and there's also the possibility of active exploitation of someone seeking valid affirmations of their confidence.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #53
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Anecdotal evidence. There's been some pretty "sharp tacks" who do hold religious views, so perhaps motivation for holding such views plays a part in how things go and whether they experience cognitive dissonance on a wide-scale level. It's not the fact they hold such views in themselves.
    There has been some very sharp tacks who held religious views. I also think, back in 500 B.C. all the way to the 1600s and beyond, religious answers to everyday questions were more plausible, because logical scientific answers weren't available to compete with the supernatural theories. We haven't quite gotten a grip on how the world and universe actually works, until very recently. And even now, what we know, is probably so little compared to what's out there. And where science and technology will take us 50, 100, 500 years from now.

    So perhaps a great mind would be more inclined in the past to hold strong religious views, than they are in the present, is what I think. Is that terribly arrogant and untrue, do you think?

  4. #54
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    The Jesuits and Dominicans were historically and even currently (Jesuits), cranked out some of the finest debating minds.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If someone thinks they are stupid, should we convince them that intelligence is unimportant, or help them recognize and make the most of the ways in which they are intelligent? Looks are not everything, but neither are they nothing. Appreciation of the beauty of the human body, in its many manifestations, is as valid as appreciation of beauty in other forms. As always, it is also in the eye of the beholder. Helping someone to behold the beauty in themselves, both inside and out, seems only worthwhile.
    Beauty is entirely subjective, intelligence is not. Intelligence has direct benefits over its absence. Thinking beauty is important has no direct benefits over thinking it's unimportant.

    If you could convince someone with an ugly self-perception that beauty didn't matter, it would solve all of their problems on the issue. Their self-esteem would never take a hit again due to appearances, and they would judge less by them.

    If you could convince them that they were beautiful rather than ugly, it would solve a few of their problems. Their body will still change, and their self-esteem would continue to take hits because of it, and they would still judge by appearances.

    Changing their body so they think they are beautiful has some short-term benefits. Aside from regularly costing money, time and effort, it also would recreate the original problem if their body changed back, as it usually does.

    The photography in the OP is a mix of the last two. It costs time, money and effort, and provides no long-term benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    No I'll ask some other madman with a mind rotting STD will I?
    That doesn't dismiss Nietzsche at all. How would you like it if, becoming insane later in life, people dismissed everything you said now and earlier?

    That said, I'll wait for someone to explain how Nietzsche is relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Servitude existed prior to Christian religion. Christian religion like any other expansionist corporation would use the same tools to "herd their sheep".
    Or modesty is just another preference. One that comes with its own pros and cons. Western society is still very modest now, so what exactly what "modesty" is referring to is left in the dark.

    I think Arthur Schopenhauer means it existed as a preference prior to certain religions taking it as a doctrine. I'd add that modesty does not help with servitude, so it won't have been adopted for that reason. In fact, forced nudity has been used to push servitude quite successfully, and in many ways Christian over a thousand years ago was less modest than society is now, but more modest in other ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm typically open to ideas such as this, I think it can be valuable for some people depending on the specifics of their situation. But you do well to point out the potential risk involved, and there's also the possibility of active exploitation of someone seeking valid affirmations of their confidence.
    Good points.

    It'll likely benefit some people quite a lot, exploit others, and overall tackle the symptoms rather than the disease. I can't hope for much more than that, so I do think it's a good thing.

  6. #56
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    That doesn't dismiss Nietzsche at all. How would you like it if, becoming insane later in life, people dismissed everything you said now and earlier?
    Lark didn't always have that mean side, that we see today. Before the insanity got him.

    Now I question everything he's ever said!

  7. #57
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Or modesty is just another preference. One that comes with its own pros and cons. Western society is still very modest now, so what exactly what "modesty" is referring to is left in the dark.

    I think Arthur Schopenhauer means it existed as a preference prior to certain religions taking it as a doctrine. I'd add that modesty does not help with servitude, so it won't have been adopted for that reason. In fact, forced nudity has been used to push servitude quite successfully, and in many ways Christian over a thousand years ago was less modest than society is now, but more modest in other ways.
    The definition of modesty has changed over the years and within this thread, only one of the more recent additions to modesty has been hiding nudity. Modesty also encompasses looking down and many other aspects of body language that doesn't challenge authority. It's key to servitude.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Modesty also encompasses looking down and many other aspects of body language that doesn't challenge authority. It's key to servitude.
    Oh right. Well that's not what I was referring to at all.

    Maybe "seductive" movements and things, but not simple body language like that.

  9. #59
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Oh right. Well that's not what I was referring to at all.

    Maybe "seductive" movements and things, but not simple body language like that.
    I'm aware that you isolated modesty to equate to nudity where I was using it in its entirety.

  10. #60
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Servitude existed prior to Christian religion.
    Indeed.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



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