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  1. #31
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ojian View Post
    And even if you were to consider that Moses was high when he supposedly had his experiences, what about all the other persons that had related experiences, sometimes to the same event that Moses was going thru. Were they all using the same drug and having the same hallucination?
    Good point. And my thoughts exactly.

    However, one could say that they'd have to be on drugs to accept the Mitvah's, which made life extraordinarily difficult for Jews from the point forward.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Because religion and spirituality usually involves a friendly relationship with some imaginary entity which is magical in nature, thus magic friend.
    And no, spirituality doesn't usually involve some imaginary entity which is magical in nature so does not equate to having a magic friend to help them. Read up more on differing ideas before you make such silly claims yourself.

    I'm not judging you, I'm mocking silly ideas. I hold everyone and everything in contempt anyway.

    I'm a nihilist, I don't have beliefs that I'm aware of.
    You do know that nihilism is a philosophy, don't you? You take the view point of being a nihilst, a philosophical belief. Well, so long as you hold everyone and everything in contempt, including yourself, no harm!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    And no, spirituality doesn't usually involve some imaginary entity which is magical in nature so does not equate to having a magic friend to help them. Read up more on differing ideas before you make such silly claims yourself.
    Notice the big fat IFs in my reply to your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    I don't think we need yet another pointless flamewar on the subject.

    If this spirituality of yours is just a philosophical thing then fine. But then why call it spiritual if no spirits are involved? If you do have an invisible friend then you're just as nutty as the Scientologists and their Thetans. So your magic friend didn't give you a rule book to follow, it's still a screwy thing to believe in.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    You do know that nihilism is a philosophy, don't you? You take the view point of being a nihilst, a philosophical belief. Well, so long as you hold everyone and everything in contempt, including yourself, no harm!
    I'm not a philosophical nihilist. I just call myself that for lack of a better term. We're all just objects in space, floating around without meaning or purpose in a universe that is the result of... no one knows what but it certainly wasn't created by a god or a magical thing that farts universes into existence. Even if the universe was created by a god or a thing it would all still be meaningless, just because some magic man says something has purpose doesn't make it so. That's just, like, his opinion, man.

  4. #34
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    I don't think we need yet another pointless flamewar on the subject.

    If this spirituality of yours is just a philosophical thing then fine. But then why call it spiritual if no spirits are involved? If you do have an invisible friend then you're just as nutty as the Scientologists and their Thetans. So your magic friend didn't give you a rule book to follow, it's still a screwy thing to believe in.
    Do you believe in causality?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Do you believe in causality?
    You mean causality as in "the universe requires a cause, therefore god exists?"

  6. #36
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    You mean causality as in "the universe requires a cause, therefore god exists?"
    Oh, no.

    I mean that causality is invisible. If you believe that there is such a thing as causality, then its existence must be inferred from the understanding, and not the senses.

    Similarly, spirits and God are said to be invisible, but that does not mean that it is impossible to infer their existence from the understanding.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Oh, no.

    I mean that causality is invisible. If you believe that there is such a thing as causality, then its existence must be inferred from the understanding, and not the senses.

    Similarly, spirits and God are said to be invisible, but that does not mean that it is impossible to infer their existence from the understanding.
    Huh. I've never heard that definition of causality before. Causality like a string of dominoes, each one knock the next one over, each event causes the next, then yeah. Everyone has different gods though.

  8. #38
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Huh. I've never heard that definition of causality before. Causality like a string of dominoes, each one knock the next one over, each event causes the next, then yeah. Everyone has different gods though.
    No doubt.

    But the point I'd like to make is this: belief in a god, or spirits, is the same as belief in causality in that 1) each belief is used to interpret experinece and 2)the justification for each belief rests not on sense datum alone, but on their ability to provide a meaningful interpretation of experience.

    E.g., when you see a line of dominoes falling, you could interpret that experience in many ways. It could be that as one domino falls it bumps the next one, causing it to fall too. It could be that a breeze is pushing them all down (maybe no domino has enough mass/velocity to knock the next over on its own?). Maybe the dominoes are alive, (or at least self-moving), and falling on their own power?

    The interpretations above assume causality, but if causality weren't necessary, it could be the case that one domino falls, and then the next falls, but the fact that they fall in order and close together in time is just a coincidence.

    Must we refer to causality to meaningfully interpret our experience, or is causality just another imaginary friend that we've no epistemic right to believe in?
    Last edited by Owl; 03-08-2008 at 06:21 AM. Reason: science stuff

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Anyhoo, this is all off-topic. I think Jennifer might want it to remain within bounds of the OP?
    Yes -- let's get back to Moses and home-brewed drugs!
    you people are incorrigible.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Must we refer to causality to meaningfully interpret our experience, or is causality just another imaginary friend that we've no epistemic right to believe in?
    We have epistemic rights? Interesting.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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