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View Poll Results: Would YOU kill the baby?

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  • I'd kill it/get someone else to kill it

    32 48.48%
  • I would not kill it and risk the possibility of being heard

    34 51.52%
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  1. #221
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="n89nnR1MdJ0"]She... She Killed It. Oh My God! OH MY GOD! I DIDN'T MEAN FOR HER TO KILL IT![/YOUTUBE]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ego Reparate; Ob Me Non Deficiat.
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    "Over the heartache that they say/Never completely goes away..."

  2. #222
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
    Not only would it be ethically impermissible to kill the baby, I don't think anyone here would be capable of killing a baby (even if they had to).
    +1

    I've found with most people that their psychotic thoughts are only such because the action perpetrated of them is of a nature that could happen to them. For instance, if I *don't* have psychotic thoughts, then nobody ever had psychotic thoughts of me, thus I am free to feel the way I want. I admit I can't kill the baby, and what I said earlier is as a result of rationalising a situation where the baby would grow up to be someone I'd absolutely hate, which is not realistic.

  3. #223
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    I couldn't kill it.

    I even hate killing bugs. It's like I feel the moment that they die.

    It bothers me.

  4. #224
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I couldn't kill it.

    I even hate killing bugs. It's like I feel the moment that they die.

    It bothers me.
    I can understand this. I always try to take bugs outside. I catch spiders in napkins and moths in cups. Applying relative value to life based on what the creature that possesses it never made much sense to me, and is so very complicated. Better to just do as little harm as possible.

    Realistically, I don't know that I could actually bring myself to do it, even if I legitimately think it is ultimately for the best.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  5. #225
    Member Caesar's Avatar
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    Why does it necessarily have to be a baby? What if it's a hysterical screamer? Shouldn't your answers be the same in any case? Does his age change the fact that he's endangering everyone or make it more acceptable to kill him? Is the OP trying to play off some notion about innocence and defenselessness because that'd change something about how people answer? If that's the case, then I wish people'd be more consistent with their morality. It should be no different from the dilemma that you're in a shipwreck, the lifeboat's overloaded, so you push one guy off.
    "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." - Oscar Wilde

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
    Why does it necessarily have to be a baby? What if it's a hysterical screamer? Shouldn't your answers be the same in any case? Does his age change the fact that he's endangering everyone or make it more acceptable to kill him? Is the OP trying to play off some notion about innocence and defenselessness because that'd change something about how people answer? If that's the case, then I wish people'd be more consistent with their morality. It should be no different from the dilemma that you're in a shipwreck, the lifeboat's overloaded, so you push one guy off.
    A hysterical person is more likely capable of defending themselves. People find the idea of killing something defenseless a lot more troubling than one that can fight back. More guilt is involved. Strange.

  7. #227
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
    Why does it necessarily have to be a baby? What if it's a hysterical screamer? Shouldn't your answers be the same in any case? Does his age change the fact that he's endangering everyone or make it more acceptable to kill him? Is the OP trying to play off some notion about innocence and defenselessness because that'd change something about how people answer? If that's the case, then I wish people'd be more consistent with their morality. It should be no different from the dilemma that you're in a shipwreck, the lifeboat's overloaded, so you push one guy off.
    You're missing the entire point of a moral dilemma. We aren't here to speculate on whether the baby will scream or will not scream. We do not speculate on whether we can "fight off" the Nazis with our bare hands. We are under the strict assumption that the options are to: kill the baby and save many lives, or not kill the baby. By not killing the baby, we establish that the baby will cry, the Nazis will come, and we all die.

    Could we be wrong? Absolutely, hence the dilemma. It is entirely possible that the baby would not cry, but this is irrelevant. You either do kill the baby or you do not.

  8. #228
    Member Caesar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    A hysterical person is more likely capable of defending themselves. People find the idea of killing something defenseless a lot more troubling than one that can fight back. More guilt is involved. Strange.
    This ties in with the theme of innocence/ignorance/purity/sinlessness (etc) as well. I think it's no accident that almost all baby animals are cute, fuzzy and harmless, and as people near adulthood, we're less forgiving to them. If babies were, say, harming us without an intention or knowledge that they're harming us (or of the consequences of what they do), we're more than willing to forgive them because on some levels we know that if the baby does not mean to harm us, there is no way he can orchestrate a full-scale and lethal assault against us, while adolescents and adults certainly can. In this way, intention does matter in morality- it matters a lot, because it speaks volumes of how dangerous a person is to us. A person who accidentally kills another is not punished as much as a premeditated murderer. It's almost Biblical, in a way, that knowledge of Good and Evil is related to the original Sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    You're missing the entire point of a moral dilemma. We aren't here to speculate on whether the baby will scream or will not scream. We do not speculate on whether we can "fight off" the Nazis with our bare hands. We are under the strict assumption that the options are to: kill the baby and save many lives, or not kill the baby. By not killing the baby, we establish that the baby will cry, the Nazis will come, and we all die.

    Could we be wrong? Absolutely, hence the dilemma. It is entirely possible that the baby would not cry, but this is irrelevant. You either do kill the baby or you do not.
    No. You seem to have missed the entire point of my post. I did not speculate on that at all, or whether we can fight off Nazis. Actually my post asks why the person who puts the entire group at risk is a baby, and would the answers change if the person is a hysterical. screaming adult who is frightened because it's curious, in that way, that a lot of these dilemmas are always set up with a baby. In fact, another such dilemma comes to mind: you're a bystander who has the power to divert a runaway train that will crash into two locations. A baby is in one and twenty adults are in another. Which way do you divert it. What does this fact illustrate about ourselves?

    And if an answer must be provided here, no, I will take my chances with the Nazis instead of killing a baby, but the answer would be the same if it was an adult.
    "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." - Oscar Wilde

  9. #229
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar View Post

    No. You seem to have missed the entire point of my post. I did not speculate on that at all, or whether we can fight off Nazis. Actually my post asks why the person who puts the entire group at risk is a baby, and would the answers change if the person is a hysterical. screaming adult who is frightened because it's curious, in that way, that a lot of these dilemmas are always set up with a baby. In fact, another such dilemma comes to mind: you're a bystander who has the power to divert a runaway train that will crash into two locations. A baby is in one and twenty adults are in another. Which way do you divert it. What does this fact illustrate about ourselves?

    And if an answer must be provided here, no, I will take my chances with the Nazis instead of killing a baby, but the answer would be the same if it was an adult.
    I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. I would say that the helplessness of the baby is a major consideration, but probably not the most significant one. I say this because we perceive adults to be more capable than infants. One would imagine that, in a crisis, an adult is well-equipped compared to the baby. When I pose these dilemmas, I generally use the word person, rather than baby. Again, with the runaway train, we cannot ignore the feeling that 20 adults could avoid disaster better than an infant, so this will influence the decision.

  10. #230
    Une Femme est une femme paperoceans's Avatar
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    I would never kill a human child.
    Between that cigarillo and sticking my finger down my throat to see if I could DT, I feel like puking RN.

    Read my Blog.

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