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  1. #11
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    The passage spoke to me.

    I am not really sure that destruction of the physical relics of a time now past is necessary to move on -- it seems productive only if said artifacts are precluding one from moving ahead, but since the change occurs within, destruction of external items doesn't really impact it directly, it just removes potentially restrictive tethers.
    It spoke to me also, and I agree with this point.

    Pain is inevitable, but suffering optional. (thanks Dana!). So I'd say, close the door to suffering, but accept that pain as a part of life and not forget its lesson.
    What is the difference?
    What I think Aelan and Dana mean is that unexpected disappointments and misfortunes will inevitably befall us, but whether we choose to hold onto something that is not there and never can be there, or something that is over and dead - in essence, whether we choose to suffer - is our own decision. I agree wholeheartedly with that. Perspective means everything.

    Things touch us deeply, and sometimes we grow to think we need something when we really do not. The article touched on this. "Nothing is irreplaceable, a habit is not a need."

    I think an adaptive way of living life is not to put all your eggs in one basket. In other words, if all your happiness banks on the success of one cast of the line, with the possibility that you will reel nothing in... you're taking a big risk, an unnecessary risk, and a risk that, even if it doesn't end in failure, will probably make you anxious, jealous, worried, caged, and so on. Happiness does not come primarily from just one thing, or from just a few things. The more happiness you stake on a roll of the dice, the harder it is to move on if you lose.

    I noticed the article kept bringing up relationships. "Has a loving relationship come to an end? [...] Has a long-lasting friendship ended all of a sudden?" "We cannot forever be [...] lovers who day and night relive an affair with someone who has gone away and has not the least intention of coming back." Relationships are the basket I am at the most risk of putting all my eggs in.

    After saying all that, stepping further outwards, I can't say whether an ending or beginning truly exist. Our lives are like those of a movie -- split-second snapshots run one after the other, but our mind blurs them all together into a continuous stream of images and experience. (Just like the human eye blurs together 30 fps of a motion picture, to create what looks like continuous action and sound.) If you view it like that, where is there ever an ending or beginning inherent in the flow, except what we attribute to that flow out of our own personal sense of meaningfulness?
    I'd agree with this. Endings and beginnings, as Nightning said, are a matter of perception. However you define "moving on" and "closing the door" is your choice. I define "closing the door" as moving on to something else that will make me happy, or simply removing myself from a situation or a person that is letting me down and not making me happy. I practice daily the art of not placing all my eggs in one basket, or even in a small handful of baskets. That way, when things do come to an end, even if it's a terrible and violent one, I can still breathe fresh air and see that life will be renewed again.

    All is not lost, especially if my eggs aren't all in one basket.
    They're running just like you
    For you, and I, wooo
    So people, people, need some good ol' love

  2. #12
    sammy
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    That passage makes a lot of sense to me. I've noticed a lot of chapters in my life requiring an abrupt end because I don't let go easily enough to end things gradually to begin with. It's a habit I'm working on fixing.

    I have a lot more to say about this topic but trouble putting it down here

  3. #13
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    I see (unconscious?) allusions to Tao Te Ching.
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

  4. #14
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Looking at my life, yes, I'm the same person....but I also distinctly remember different 'phases' of mine, and different 'perception-glasses' I was wearing at various times in my life. I tend to look at my own development as more of an 'evolution'...just a continuous flow. Gradual changes from week to week or year to year (and hopefully based on learnings and gaining more knowledge and *wisdom* and awareness over time), but if you cut out 5 yrs, and disregard everything that happened between point X and point [X-5] (hehe), then it could be viewed as two distinct people, yeah. It is funny.
    *nods* My perception of things is very much like yours. Evolution is a good word to use. The rate of change isn't constant... sometimes when I actively want something changed I spend a lot of effort at it, other times I'm not so gang ho on change. So the idea of continuous flow doesn't fit as well. While evolution can occur in bursts or more slowly over time. Like the notion of punctuated equilibrium. (Yes I'm a bad science nerd and I'm proud of it )

    BUT I think it is quite convenient for the mind to structure things into concrete endings and new beginnings, so from a psychological/emotional health perspective, I think everything Coelho writes is an effective *tool* to let go of things, to recognize that you can be empowered to make changes in the now, and going forward, and nothing is really stopping you except perhaps yourself, and limitations you are placing on yourself by holding onto repetitive behaviors/views, something in your past, safety/defense mechanisms, etc. Without rewriting the same stuff in the passage, I guess it really spoke to me and I feel like I try to approach my own life in a similar manner. And, for my own purposes, I do recognize 'phases' in my life, and distinct endings and beginnings. Could these, in a sense, be viewed as artificial and manufactured by me? Oh, certainly. It is all about perception, and in the same way, I could also view them, I suppose, as a continuous flow without beginning or end -- just one thing leading to another. Cause and effect. But that too could be seen as artificial, right? It is a construct of our own mind too.
    Yes, I think Athenian phrased it quite nicely earlier... that beginnings and endings are ideas we need in order to orientate ourselves because our rational mind can only process so much. If we can grasp the universe in its entirety then we wouldn't need such terms as beginnings and endings. She phrased it so much more concisely.

    The thing I wonder about is whether you can orientate yourself without precise labels on the beginnings and endings. That really was where my question lies. Is it possible to have an inner bearing? Like a gyroscope on a ship so you can track your progress from point A to B with minimal landmarks, stars, compasses etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    Things touch us deeply, and sometimes we grow to think we need something when we really do not. The article touched on this. "Nothing is irreplaceable, a habit is not a need."
    That line didn't jump out at me before, but now that you've mentioned it. I see it. I guess people are more resilient than we imagine ourselves to be. Things can hurt us and break us... but they can't kill us... we recover over time because we must... that life moves on.

    I think an adaptive way of living life is not to put all your eggs in one basket. In other words, if all your happiness banks on the success of one cast of the line, with the possibility that you will reel nothing in... you're taking a big risk, an unnecessary risk, and a risk that, even if it doesn't end in failure, will probably make you anxious, jealous, worried, caged, and so on. Happiness does not come primarily from just one thing, or from just a few things. The more happiness you stake on a roll of the dice, the harder it is to move on if you lose.
    Eggs in a basket or two. Good to place them in several... also good to shift your focus on the eggs. Which ones matter the most to you. In a way hope in area is like eggs in one basket as well... or a group of baskets linked together. Diversifying interests, what's important to you and markers of your self worth... all of those things balanced together is also important.

    Philo: Any thoughts and comments are appreciated... but only if you're comfortable with sharing them though.

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