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  1. #1
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    Default Struggle with morality in a capitalist world

    Hey guys! I don't know what protocol is on this but I started a thread in the NF section about morality in a capitalist world and now I am thinking it would be more appropriate for this section. It's called "ENFP internal struggle with morality". I'd love to get the opinion of some of you who typically don't frequent that section and stick to this one. Thanks!!!
    What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do.

  2. #2
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    I think living morally in a non-capitalist world would be much more difficult-denying freedom to others is one of the most immoral things possible.

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    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    ^ There is more freedom where there is less interest. Capitalism may be effective in some countries but all it brought to many is a reality of deceit, corruption, conflict, and a hunger for all things. I'd rather live in the mountain with the monks.

    I don't really see "thriving economy" when people are too individualistic to the point of keeping all the goods to themselves and forcing it to stay that way. Revolutions don't work as well. People are too individualistic for that!

    Sigh. Apparently, I like innovations...another capitalist brainwashing!

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    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    ^ There is more freedom where there is less interest. Capitalism may be effective in some countries but all it brought to many is a reality of deceit, corruption, conflict, and a hunger for all things. I'd rather live in the mountain with the monks.
    Economic systems without free enterprise tend to have much more of the first two, and replaces (regulated) conflict with opression; competition between interests (i.e. conflict) means the average individual is not dependent on a small number of forces with extrordinarily high relative power over himself (i.e. fuedalism, communism, or even traditional Tibet, since you mentioned Monks, etc.).

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    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Morality is possible in a capitalistic world. But your way to become rich will be stonier and more complicated. And the richness you'll achieve wont be money only.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Economic systems without free enterprise tend to have much more of the first two, and replaces (regulated) conflict with opression; competition between interests (i.e. conflict) means the average individual is not dependent on a small number of forces with extrordinarily high relative power over himself (i.e. fuedalism, communism, or even traditional Tibet, since you mentioned Monks, etc.).
    Regardless of "free enterprise", often, in the "underdeveloped world", competition is regulated by the "elites" to the point of creating a system where there is both oppression AND conflict. The majority, the lower class, remains ignorant and stimulated.

  7. #7
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    From wikipedia:
    The four basic laws of supply and demand are
    If demand increases and supply remains unchanged then higher equilibrium price and quantity.
    If demand decreases and supply remains the same then lower equilibrium price and quantity.
    If supply increases and demand remains unchanged then lower equilibrium price and higher quantity.
    If supply decreases and demand remains the same then higher price and lower quantity.

    then the question is if one finds that speculation in this is moral or not.

  8. #8
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Regardless of "free enterprise", often, in the "underdeveloped world", competition is regulated by the "elites" to the point of creating a system where there is both oppression AND conflict. The majority, the lower class, remains ignorant and stimulated.
    Even under the worst functioning capitalist economies (and no, functionally anarchic states like Somalia do not count), the regulated conflicts within capitalism creates a larger oligarchy where power is less dependent on monopolization of political power in the hands of the few; in short, there is hope for change and potential reform interests are empowered, which is more than non-capitalist economies can provide.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Capitalism's evil and any of its benefits are merely accidential and indirect.

    Hence Adam Smith's quote about "Not from benefice..." it'll eventually become obsolete and then maybe morality will be a factor and arbitror of human affairs and character again.

  10. #10
    Senor Membrane
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    It isn't just capitalism. It probably doesn't matter all that much which system of thought is behind a society, when it is let to rule everything it just becomes too much. It seems like capitalism is taught to us so thoroughly that it is almost impossible to really question it and propose alternatives. No one seems to do that... and the ones that do, they seem out of touch with reality. And, of course they are, since the "reality" is the capitalist reality.

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