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  1. #91
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Because all men die.

  2. #92
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    The story demanded it.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Because he could convert water into wine.

    The wine producers weren't able to compete against someone who had basically no costs, and the rulers weren't able to find a legitimate way to tax the wine, so they decided that Jesus had to be eliminated.
    I know you're being flippant but the reality is that growing up with the myths and stories surrounding Jesus I think in some ways desensitises people to what is being discussed, imagine that you were a community leader, wine maker, fisherman, physician, any of the other professions incidentially mentioned in the bible and you witness or hear of these miracles, its not simply going to be a joyous occasion or wonderous, especially not if you've also heard that Jesus is teaching something different to you or does not meet with your own and time honoured thinking or expectations.

    They were as wary about false prophets, charlatans and cults back then as we are today, I'm pretty sure of that, having read the bible and studied similar sources, like Josephus, these were not a bunch of fools, credulously recording hearsay as the conceited present would have anyone believe. They were learned and cautious.

    In many ways I can understand the Pharisees, Sadducees (spelling) and Scribes reactions to Jesus, I'm sure they were typical of their reaction to many others like him, but the difference was that physical or natural laws didnt need to matter a damn to this guy into the bargain. Even before he'd raised people from the dead (which he did with one or two others, although he suggested that they were not dead but sleeping and there's a possiblity, although it could simply be modern doubt, that this was literal rather than metaphorical, although I believe there were wake periods observed and they seemed pretty wholly dead in that time) and then raised himself, apparently, he's bound to have appeared pretty unstoppable.

    There is also the element which was brought out in some of the more recent novelisations about the life of jesus (I say recent, it predated Mel Gibson's movie and was probably in the ninties) that Judas was a bit of a kind of marxist-leninist character, and perhaps some of the relgionists in the establishment were too, they expected a warrior king, this messiah talked peace but could be provoked, as he was by the money changers in the temple, and had miraculous powers. I'm sure they thought that by their actions they would be provoking a final confrontation, forcing Jesus' hand, so he would use his miraculous powers against the Romans. I'm sure there were plenty of people who, like you say, just wanted rid of him too.

    The whole thing is an epic story about how no matter how awry the world has gone God will not destroy it, there will not be another flood, that violence and power can not conquer for good in the way that mankind has perrenially believed that it can.

  4. #94
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    Because he was a mortal man.

  5. #95
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    It is human nature to persecute someone good to the death.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

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  6. #96
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I know you're being flippant but the reality is that growing up with the myths and stories surrounding Jesus I think in some ways desensitises people to what is being discussed, imagine that you were a community leader, wine maker, fisherman, physician, any of the other professions incidentially mentioned in the bible and you witness or hear of these miracles, its not simply going to be a joyous occasion or wonderous, especially not if you've also heard that Jesus is teaching something different to you or does not meet with your own and time honoured thinking or expectations
    No kidding. I'd be like ''wtf is God doing, why did he give superpowerz to this Jeshua dood and not to me, let's all rebel against them"

  7. #97
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    It is human nature to persecute someone good to the death.
    Yes. Jesus did not *have to die*, it was just a logical consequence of what he did and the context of his time. Anyone perceived as going against the establishment (two establishments, actually), and reaching out to the marginalized as he did, was sure to incur the wrath of powerful people, who in those days, had the power of life and death over their enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The whole thing is an epic story about how no matter how awry the world has gone God will not destroy it, there will not be another flood, that violence and power can not conquer for good in the way that mankind has perrenially believed that it can.
    This is the best light in which to interpret the story of Jesus.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #98
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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  9. #99
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    In the Garden of Gesemene Jesus addressed his Father and asked that, "this cup pass from me", but his Father passed Him the cup anyway.

    So Jesus was tortured to death because his Father commanded it.

    And if we study the history of childhood, we find that child sacrifice is common. And the Father has form as He commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac.

    So we should remember that the three great monotheistic religions began with Abraham and child sacrifice.

  10. #100
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    In the Garden of Gesemene Jesus addressed his Father and asked that, "this cup pass from me", but his Father passed Him the cup anyway.

    So Jesus was tortured to death because his Father commanded it.

    And if we study the history of childhood, we find that child sacrifice is common. And the Father has form as He commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac.

    So we should remember that the three great monotheistic religions began with Abraham and c hild sacrifice.
    It's so bizarre that you have this hang-up. The Israelites might have been the first to have such strict written laws against child sacrifice. Whatever problems with the treatment of children the modern church might have they certainly don't stem from biblical teachings.

    Leviticus Chapter 20

    1 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
    2 "Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones.
    3 I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name.
    4 And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death,
    5 then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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