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  1. #21
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    'Absurd' wasn't meant to be interpreted literally with negative connotation, but I've never been the best at communication. What I meant was... with a paradox.. such as the one about time.. it is exasperating to consider either option... that is the appeal to me.
    I know =P

    Time ... is really fun to think about. (I think it's brilliant, BRILLIANT, RIGHT up to the punch line ... where I suddenly don't get it anymore. This piece is FRUSTRATING)
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Beginning of time is an absurdity. It is pure nonsense.
    Beginning of time cannot take place in time, can it?
    It cannot take place beyond time, can it?
    It cannot take place, can it?

    Big Bang never was.
    It is.
    Some of that made sense to me, but I don't think it's absurd to think that time had a starting point. It partly has to do with how you define time, which is tricky. The problem is this... in order to get to the present moment, you need to traverse through all the prior points in time. But if the amount of points you need to traverse is infinite, i.e., the universe had no beginning since time never began, that task is impossible.

  3. #23
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    A thread is as good as its replies.

    Thanks.

  4. #24
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Some of that made sense to me, but I don't think it's absurd to think that time had a starting point. It partly has to do with how you define time, which is tricky. The problem is this... in order to get to the present moment, you need to traverse through all the prior points in time. But if the amount of points you need to traverse is infinite, i.e., the universe had no beginning since time never began, that task is impossible.
    Why do we turn the table?
    The table turns.

    The infinite has no edge?
    Only if we turned the table.
    The turned table is unturned.

    The axiom is outside of the field.
    Physics is about the field only.

    Hence the finite does not have an edge.
    The infinite is the edge.

    The universe is finite.
    It has no edge.

  5. #25
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Beginning of time or no beginning of time?

    Life on other planets or no life on other planets?

    Creator or no creator?


    [disclaimer: I am not looking for simple answers to these questions. I am merely opening up discussion on the mysteries which shall remain so.]
    First I was gonna dismiss these, as asking for "absurdity" seemed a wrong approach. But Wildcat's latest post made me think.

    We may or may not have been created by someone.

    We may or may not have already created something by ourselves.

    We may or may not do so in the future.

    Given the potentially vastly different operating environments of the supposed creator and the created, it's difficult to form consistent standards as to what separates a new "generation" of creators from the previous.

    A pocket calculator might not be mistaken as something "alive" and a "member" of a new life form, , but a future supercomputer with impeccable AI just might be.

    Given the idea that we might become creators ourselves, it's not hard to entertain the idea someone might have created us.

    We currently exist in an unknown position in the succession of creators, if any.

    If we ever factually do create something that qualifies as a creation by some ultimate standards, there's the challenge of not recognizing it. At which point the smart robot we're working on becomes self-conscious? How were we to distinguish it from programmed behavior? Are these the things we should be looking for in deciding if we've truly created something and whether or not we qualify as creators?

    It may be that we, as creators, might not believe in our creations. They might believe in us before we believe in them, or then the other way around.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #26
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Why do we turn the table?
    The table turns.

    The infinite has no edge?
    Only if we turned the table.
    The turned table is unturned.

    The axiom is outside of the field.
    Physics is about the field only.

    Hence the finite does not have an edge.
    The infinite is the edge.

    The universe is finite.
    It has no edge.

    Thank you for clarifying your position.

    Sincerely,
    Edahn

  7. #27
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Thank you for clarifying your position.

    Sincerely,
    Edahn

  8. #28
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    First I was gonna dismiss these, as asking for "absurdity" seemed a wrong approach. But Wildcat's latest post made me think.

    We may or may not have been created by someone.
    I think the brilliance of Wildcat's reply is that it reveals Creator vs. no Creator, and time without a beginning vs. time with a beginning as distinctions which are not actually distinctions. Both variants are collapsed into their origin at their boundary, which cannot be a boundary at all exactly because it IS the absolute boundary. If we keep our wits about us, we won't pretend to be able to see any boundary, for it would commit us to the existence of an opposing side which it cannot have. We are forced to conclude that there is simply nothing there to see at the supposed "edge" of existence.

    (N.B. how this also applies to the "edge" of our own lives in time. Death is just another kind of boundary which is none at all for us, as understanding deals only with the finite, what is in the field of life.)

    The issue of whether or not there is life on other planets, though, is more a matter of contingent matter of fact. It's a different kind of question than the other two.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  9. #29
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    This thread reminds me of something I read recently about black holes and their event horizons.

    But I'm passing because I don't accept the existence of time.

  10. #30
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    This thread reminds me of something I read recently about black holes and their event horizons.

    But I'm passing because I don't accept the existence of time.
    Interesting...!

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