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View Poll Results: Which of these statements do you litterally believe in?

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  • There exists at least one powerful being (=God).

    6 19.35%
  • God is older than life.

    3 9.68%
  • God is older than the universe.

    3 9.68%
  • God has caused the universe to be.

    5 16.13%
  • God has created everything like it is now.

    1 3.23%
  • God actively interferes in human life.

    4 12.90%
  • God can read your thoughts and feelings.

    4 12.90%
  • Humans have a soul which lives on after death, independently from memory.

    5 16.13%
  • This soul will be rewarded or punished after death for the human's actions.

    3 9.68%
  • Your religion is the only true one.

    2 6.45%
  • The holy book is directly written by God and infallible.

    2 6.45%
  • None of these (you're an atheist!)

    21 67.74%
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Results 11 to 20 of 24

  1. #11
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    My answer to every question but the last is no, but your conclusion is wrong; I'm an agnostic.
    This.
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  2. #12
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    About atheists and agnostics: I'm using the same definition as Richard Dawkins does (and I guess nobody will call him an agnostic): he puts people on a continuous scale from a 100% theist to an 100% atheist. You've got (with all possibilities between):
    1)100% theist - who not only believes, but fully knows there exists a god.
    2)Someone who puts the chance of god's existence slightly below 100% but still very high: this one is, for all practical purposes, a theist.
    3)Chance of god's existence higher than 50% but significantly below 100% - an agnostic with theistic tendency
    4) 50%-50% - a pure agnostic
    5) Lower than 50% but significantly higher than 0% - an agnostic with atheistic tendency
    6) Close to 0% - for all practical purposes an atheist
    7) Exactly 0% - someone who knows for sure there is no god, just like the 100% theist knows for sure there is one.

    He puts both group 6 and group 7 in the atheist category, and that's what I did too. I'm a group 6 one.

    If I understand it correctly, I think Lowtech Redneck uses another criterium as well. He calls "atheists" the ones who try to spread atheism and "agnosts" the ones who would rather keep on the sidelines. And I get where that comes from, because, indeed, the ones who call themselves atheist usually are very outspoken about that. I don't know whether I would be an atheist or an agnost in this aspect. I don't really want to deconvert anybody. However, I like to discuss it very much. Belief intrigues me. I like to discuss about beliefs, where they come from, why they are there, why would you believe in a god and why don't I believe in a god any more... I find that very interesting and I like to discuss theories. So maybe the practical effect is more that of an atheist in Lowtech Redneck's sense; even while I don't actively seek to deconvert.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I believe that humans have an essence of energy which they can leave behind in buildings and other places, and I believe this to be true - I feel that I KNOW it to be true - independently from any religious concepts, and it doesn't necessarily imply there is a god. But it is. So that's why I checked the "soul independent from memory" item.

    I also believe some sort of energy exists in the universe, Taoists call it "the way" and Buddhists believe in this sort of thing as well without there having to be a god...but it applies to the "I believe that there is at least one powerful being"...though it may not be a being, or a creator, but an energy of life in the universe.

    I also literally believe that strange things can happen which seem like interference of human energy or what, I don't know. I don't necessarily call it "god." I consider myself agnostic. It's more like the broader human consciousness, or the consciousness of life.

    So this exercise helped me to clarify what I believe, though your questions didn't quite capture what I believe, per se. It didn't really change anything for me.
    I have similar views to marm.

    I believe there is something... not necessarily an all powerful being we call God, but rather some sort of life force or energy. I very much enjoy the Hindu perspective on this: the Nirguna Brahman. The Nirguna Brahman is infinite, without attributes, unexplainable. All the other gods, Shiva, Brahma, etc. are Saguna Brahmans, or rather God's with attributes. These Saguna Brahmans exist to help the individual find something more relatable... closer to being tangible... and to make it easier for humans to find peace and spirituality. But the bigger picture is to eventually look past these attributes and see the Nirguna Brahman, the unexplainable and infinite.

    I personally find it miraculous when I think about the intricacy of the human body or the world we live in. I find it unfathomable that it's all completely random. However, I don't believe in divine intervention. I find reincarnation and karma to be of great possibility, along with the infinite soul. How this soul came to be, I don't know... but I believe in it. I believe this is the reason I'm so greatly interested in dreams, lucid dreaming and out of body experiences.

    "Down through the centuries the notion that life is rounded in a dream
    has been a pervasive theme of philosophers and poets.
    So doesn't it make sense that death, too, would be wrapped in dream?
    That after death, your conscious life would continue,
    in what might be called a dream body?
    It would be the same dream body you experience in your everyday dream life,
    except that in the post-mortal state - you could never again wake up.
    Never again return to your physical body." -the flashbulb, "Kirlian voyager."

    Song lyrics, but I find them fitting to explain how I came to believe in the great possibility of a soul.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  4. #14
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
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    I believe this exercise is only beneficial to those who don't know what they believe. Those who know what they believe are not going to be moved by a consensus of answers. Those who don't know what they believe don't know themselves and are probably not prone to considering things like this. The only group of those who don't know what they believe that will enjoy this exercise is those who like to argue either side of the question. But then I'm feeling cynical today.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

  5. #15
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    And technically, just about everyone is an agnostic, so why emphasize one over the other? I tend to view the terms 'atheist' and 'agnostic' as value judgements in terms of common usage; those identifying as atheist tend to be either hostile to religion or at least view atheism as a positive trait relative to theism (and many simply view it as the best perspective for themselves, which I have absolutely no problem with). Those identifying as agnostics tend to be some combination of nonjudgemental regarding the moral or intellectual capacity of atheists and theists, completely disinterested in the philosophical implications of the question, or lack faith by default rather than by choice. I consider myself among the latter, and tend to feel as alienated from outspoken atheists as I do from outspoken religionists. In short, I and many other agnostics do not wish to to identify with a broad label that is commonly associatted with a much narrower social movement that actively seeks to increase its numbers.
    So basically, philosophically, you're an atheist..that is you are not a theist (someone who believes in god). Sure, you're agnostic about your atheism (most atheists are) but when it comes right down to the issue of "Do you believe in god?" Your answer is anything but "Yes".
    Practically, in everyday life, you go by agnostic simply because the term atheism is misunderstood by many and carries negative connotations in society.
    Would you agree that under some definitions of atheism you're an atheist?
    Under this one?
    Atheist->a/theist->ie not a theist.
    Theist-> someone who believes in a god.
    In my mind anyone who doesn't tick "There exists at least one powerful being (=God)" when asked what your beliefs are is an atheist.

    That question really only has 3 possible answers. Yes, No and (variations of) I don't know/ I reserve judgement.

    Yes= Theist.
    No= Atheist.
    I don't know/ I reserve judgement= Atheist.

  6. #16
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    Would you agree that under some definitions of atheism you're an atheist?
    Of couse; I just reject the appropriateness of that label, and do not self-identify as such.

  7. #17
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Natural and Supernatural

    In the USA the word 'atheist' is perjorative. And it would not be too far to say that 'atheist' is a term of abuse.

    So why call ourselves atheists? Why not call ourselves 'natural philosophers' in contradistinction to 'supernatural philosophers'?

  8. #18
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I proclaim a jihad on this thread. O_O

    How's that for an answer? Seriously. Stop concerning yourselves with the endless internet questions on the existence/non-existence of God - or assuming that anyone here doesn't ask themselves enough questions already. If you don't believe, then don't. If you do, you do. Neither one knows anything. What would be more interesting is discussing philosophical issues that might lead somewhere. This OTOH is unsolvable and a waste of time on an epic scale.

    /just a mini rant.. don't mind me.

  9. #19
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    @ KDude: why I am concerning myself with such discussions? Because I find them interesting. Religion fascinates me. Not because they are somehow useful. If you don't want to waste your time on that, well, don't waste your time on that. Waste your time on watching football, or playing the piano, or reading fiction, or collecting figurines and dusting them.
    All useless things, but some of them can be fun. Which ones? Depends on your taste. Maybe you think it's strange to enjoy discussions rather than watching sports, but I do.

    PS. I'm still searching for the ones who checked "god caused the universe to be" and not "god is older". I always thought that the whole notion of causality needed the notion of time... I'd like to know how you fit those two together!
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  10. #20
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    About atheists and agnostics: I'm using the same definition as Richard Dawkins does (and I guess nobody will call him an agnostic): he puts people on a continuous scale from a 100% theist to an 100% atheist. You've got (with all possibilities between):
    1)100% theist - who not only believes, but fully knows there exists a god.
    2)Someone who puts the chance of god's existence slightly below 100% but still very high: this one is, for all practical purposes, a theist.
    3)Chance of god's existence higher than 50% but significantly below 100% - an agnostic with theistic tendency
    4) 50%-50% - a pure agnostic
    5) Lower than 50% but significantly higher than 0% - an agnostic with atheistic tendency
    6) Close to 0% - for all practical purposes an atheist
    7) Exactly 0% - someone who knows for sure there is no god, just like the 100% theist knows for sure there is one.
    You would get this scale a lot more interesting if you added another (quite essential) perspective to it. Let's say the scale you have now is the x-axis. Add y-axis about how important they think their belief and definition of the x is. In that way you will get people like myself described as well. This would have some interesting results.

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