A world without sin

[Lark]

We live in a world without sin, that's not to say that no one is wicked, evil or bad but that there's no popular or consensus conceptualisation of anything like sin.

So, do you think this is good or bad or neither?

 

[Nicodemus]

Good.

 

[Qlip]

I think this has been conceptualized before in science fiction. People don't sin, aren't bad.. just maladjusted and need to be corrected to integrate into society. Roll out the shock treatment and conditioning.

So, could be bad.

 

[Zarathustra]

I think we do have a reasonably existent popular or consensus belief of what sin is.

It's more about whether or not we believe that "sinning" matters, and whether our concepts of sin become less black and white, and develop some shades of grey, as we get older and mature.

For most of us, as we get older, what would generally be considered lesser forms of sin (fornication, visiting strip clubs, getting drunk/high/etc.) tend to become less problematic in our minds.

Worse forms of sin (murder, stealing, adultery, lying) tend to maintain their status as serious offenses, regardless of our age.

 

[miss fortune]

well... first off we'd have to seperate the concept of sin and social mores... oftentimes the "sins" have been adapted into the social mores of the culture as things you just don't do... and many sins are considered sins when they were adapted by religions as forbidden things because they were against the social mores of the times... religious rules were origionally considered the rules of social necessity- religion being an explanation of WHY the world is as it is and why we do things- every society ended up with some form of religion to explain science and social sciences

secondly- would there still be laws against stuff like murdering people and stealing stuff or would those be a free for all in this new society as well? There is a difference between legal and moral, though oftentimes morals were taken into account when the laws were written

thirdly- how nitpicky of sins are we getting into here? are we going to things like the old testament books where it's a sin to eat a lobster or things of that sort?

 

[guesswho]

We live in a world without sin, that's not to say that no one is wicked, evil or bad but that there's no popular or consensus conceptualisation of anything like sin.

So, do you think this is good or bad or neither?

Can Somalia fit in this world? Or should we exclude them and throw'em off the world? They do have kids with machine guns...

 

[Queen Kat]

Sin makes the world go round.

 

[neptunesnet]

Sin makes the world go round.

I never understood that phrase.

"Money" makes the world go 'round. "Sin" makes the world go 'round. "Love" makes the world go 'round. If the metaphor's supposed to hint at the true nature of humans, then why mention just one thing? Human drama, love, suffering, joy as well as the systems in which these states operate (financial, cultural, etc.) and everything else we know as beings should also be included, shouldn't it? Nothing exists in a vaccuum.

...

Alright so what is this thread about?

/shameless derail

 

[Hate]

Sin makes the world go round.

"Money" makes the world go 'round. "Sin" makes the world go 'round. "Love" makes the world go 'round. If the metaphor's supposed to hint at the true nature of humans, then why mention just one thing? Human drama, love, suffering, joy as well as the systems in which these states operate (financial, cultural, etc.) and everything else we know as beings should also be included, shouldn't it? Nothing exists in a vaccuum.

*ahem* .. Pardon me, but I think you've both been misinformed. According to the great western philosopher Ice Cube, it is gangstas that make the world go 'round.

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbviP8i8WPw"]-[/YOUTUBE]

 

[guesswho]

No you got it all wrong.
Turtles make the world go round. Just look at how cute they are.

 

[Lark]

If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?

What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?

 

[Zarathustra]

If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?

Not necessarily.

I think it causes the concept to evolve.

Of course, I don't believe God is really dead.

What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?

Those are two pretty decent explanations of how most atheists probably look at things.

 

[Amethyst]

Psh, sounds boring.

Interpretations of sin are different. Me going and sleeping with a bunch of people in the next hour would throw me into Hell automatically to some, or even me being on the pill. :rolli:

 

[lowtech redneck]

Sin as a concept is not strictly limited to disobeying a supernatural entity ('as we forgive those who sin against us'...), so in places where 'God is dead' the emphasis will simply shift more toward denying someone their rights or violating norms of recriprocity.

 

[Lark]

Sin as a concept is not strictly limited to disobeying a supernatural entity ('as we forgive those who sin against us'...), so in places where 'God is dead' the emphasis will simply shift more toward denying someone their rights or violating norms of recriprocity.

So given this and what Zarathrustra has said would you guys think that the idea of sin one which if it did not exist it would have to be invented kind of thing? Is it a good then if it is reframed?

I think its a concept which was in some ways more real to me when I was younger than it is now but it remains something I think about to this day, I think it gave me motivation to exercise self-control and personal responsibility before I could properly rationalise why and think consequentially, I really think I benefited more than my peers who where simply trying to dodge adult or other authority or prohibitions and formal sanctions.

Its just one of many ideas which has survived across the generational span that well and I think the world has suffered as a consequence. I first started thinking about this when I experienced the "sudden disappearence" of marxism in the ninties from serious discourse and just the volume of books which where being discarded in the libraries was a good indicator of the change but with time I think marxism was just one example of an idea which did not and could not sustain, I dont believe it was ever that deeply rooted because of a number of things, although, and it could just be the UK, I think there's a lot more and more important ideas and norms which arent materialising or being passed on as they once where.

 

[Thalassa]

It's more intelligent and infinitely more sensitive to realize that people do things for a variety of reasons (including mental illness, among others) than there just being this black and white "sin."

There is still LAW. There is still is good and bad. But the concept of sin is limited and ignorant.

 

[Queen Kat]

I never understood that phrase.

"Money" makes the world go 'round. "Sin" makes the world go 'round. "Love" makes the world go 'round. If the metaphor's supposed to hint at the true nature of humans, then why mention just one thing? Human drama, love, suffering, joy as well as the systems in which these states operate (financial, cultural, etc.) and everything else we know as beings should also be included, shouldn't it? Nothing exists in a vaccuum.

...

Alright so what is this thread about?

/shameless derail

I wasn't serious. I just thought it was a cool thing to say.

 

[nonsequitur]

Watch the movie "Serenity". Or you may already have and that's where this topic came from.

"Let me show you a world without sin."

 

[miss fortune]

If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?

What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?

I already answered that, but I doubt you read my post

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

It's more intelligent and infinitely more sensitive to realize that people do things for a variety of reasons (including mental illness, among others) than there just being this black and white "sin."

There is still LAW. There is still is good and bad. But the concept of sin is limited and ignorant.

Absolutely. the word "sin" is a dismissal of a human being's worth because it makes them "worthy" of eternal death and/or torment. Human beings still cause destructive problems and like you say, there are reasons behind those behaviors. Understanding and correcting the underlying problems is preventative and the best problem solving I know.

The way to do this without judgment is to have enough humility to know that when placed in a different set of circumstances, even I, or even you, could be impacted differently and could in fact be the source of those same problems.

From a philosophical perspective, humanity can be distilled down to one conceptual idea, the existence of each actual person is yet another manifestation of that concept. I have good qualities because my genetics and environments nurtured those things. Some of us win the lottery to varying degree while others of us don't. We then take to punishing the ones who didn't. Understanding cause and effect to solve social problems without judgment is far more enlightened than the motivation to punish anyone who doesn't fall into category A [defined subjectively as "good" by a group] and instead is deamed worth less and deserving of punishment because of who they are and not because of what they did which is category B [Sinner, or bad people].