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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?

    What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?
    Not necessarily.

    I think it causes the concept to evolve.

    Of course, I don't believe God is really dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?
    Those are two pretty decent explanations of how most atheists probably look at things.

  3. #13
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Psh, sounds boring.

    Interpretations of sin are different. Me going and sleeping with a bunch of people in the next hour would throw me into Hell automatically to some, or even me being on the pill. :rolli:

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Sin as a concept is not strictly limited to disobeying a supernatural entity ('as we forgive those who sin against us'...), so in places where 'God is dead' the emphasis will simply shift more toward denying someone their rights or violating norms of recriprocity.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Sin as a concept is not strictly limited to disobeying a supernatural entity ('as we forgive those who sin against us'...), so in places where 'God is dead' the emphasis will simply shift more toward denying someone their rights or violating norms of recriprocity.
    So given this and what Zarathrustra has said would you guys think that the idea of sin one which if it did not exist it would have to be invented kind of thing? Is it a good then if it is reframed?

    I think its a concept which was in some ways more real to me when I was younger than it is now but it remains something I think about to this day, I think it gave me motivation to exercise self-control and personal responsibility before I could properly rationalise why and think consequentially, I really think I benefited more than my peers who where simply trying to dodge adult or other authority or prohibitions and formal sanctions.

    Its just one of many ideas which has survived across the generational span that well and I think the world has suffered as a consequence. I first started thinking about this when I experienced the "sudden disappearence" of marxism in the ninties from serious discourse and just the volume of books which where being discarded in the libraries was a good indicator of the change but with time I think marxism was just one example of an idea which did not and could not sustain, I dont believe it was ever that deeply rooted because of a number of things, although, and it could just be the UK, I think there's a lot more and more important ideas and norms which arent materialising or being passed on as they once where.

  6. #16
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    It's more intelligent and infinitely more sensitive to realize that people do things for a variety of reasons (including mental illness, among others) than there just being this black and white "sin."

    There is still LAW. There is still is good and bad. But the concept of sin is limited and ignorant.

  7. #17
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I never understood that phrase.

    "Money" makes the world go 'round. "Sin" makes the world go 'round. "Love" makes the world go 'round. If the metaphor's supposed to hint at the true nature of humans, then why mention just one thing? Human drama, love, suffering, joy as well as the systems in which these states operate (financial, cultural, etc.) and everything else we know as beings should also be included, shouldn't it? Nothing exists in a vaccuum.

    ...

    Alright so what is this thread about?

    /shameless derail
    I wasn't serious. I just thought it was a cool thing to say.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
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  8. #18
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    Watch the movie "Serenity". Or you may already have and that's where this topic came from.

    "Let me show you a world without sin."

  9. #19
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If God is supposedly dead is sin a dead concept too?

    What would an athiest's perspective on sin be? Is it just a primitive precursor to ethics or a concept prefiguring the super-ego/moral compass?
    I already answered that, but I doubt you read my post
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #20
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's more intelligent and infinitely more sensitive to realize that people do things for a variety of reasons (including mental illness, among others) than there just being this black and white "sin."

    There is still LAW. There is still is good and bad. But the concept of sin is limited and ignorant.
    Absolutely. the word "sin" is a dismissal of a human being's worth because it makes them "worthy" of eternal death and/or torment. Human beings still cause destructive problems and like you say, there are reasons behind those behaviors. Understanding and correcting the underlying problems is preventative and the best problem solving I know.

    The way to do this without judgment is to have enough humility to know that when placed in a different set of circumstances, even I, or even you, could be impacted differently and could in fact be the source of those same problems.

    From a philosophical perspective, humanity can be distilled down to one conceptual idea, the existence of each actual person is yet another manifestation of that concept. I have good qualities because my genetics and environments nurtured those things. Some of us win the lottery to varying degree while others of us don't. We then take to punishing the ones who didn't. Understanding cause and effect to solve social problems without judgment is far more enlightened than the motivation to punish anyone who doesn't fall into category A [defined subjectively as "good" by a group] and instead is deamed worth less and deserving of punishment because of who they are and not because of what they did which is category B [Sinner, or bad people].
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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