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  1. #61
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggletron View Post
    Except when people misuse mathematics they are misusing something that is actually useful.
    I've heard quite a few people claim that mathematics isn't useful, but they are just as mistaken as you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    To be honest true religion hasnt ever resulted in atrocity, violence and other abuses so much as ideology or religion as ideology, persons who individuallly and voluntarily create intentional communities to share their lives and beliefs with or who withdraw to lives of prayer and contemplation and reflection are not hurting anyone, in fact a lot of the time by example and often literary works they have helped many besides themselves or their immediate circle indirectly.
    Yeah, you are absolutely right. You never hear of violence and hate perpetrated by monks or Amish or any group like that. On the other hand people in power try to use religion and a whole host of other things to further their agenda: national pride, defence, spreading freedom, preserving order, etc.... The problem isn't with religion itself, but rather the corruption that often is present with people in power.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    You never hear of violence and hate perpetrated by monks or Amish or any group like that.
    Are you talking about today or in the past? Cause monks have engaged in violence in the past, and not just within Christianity. There were the warrior monks of China and Japan for example.

  3. #63
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Really? It reminds people to love each other? I thought it reminded some people that they were "the chosen people" and reminded still others that while homosexuality is a hideous sin, it's okey-dokey to sell one's daughters into sexual slavery, and dammit she better perform!

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
    Slavery was actually permitted under the law code to settle debt. And if you read this, you'll see the law is stressing treating her as a human being not as a dog.

    Your other posts - a lot of them have to do with punishment for disobedience. Obviously the person in question was going to die, leaving his wife as a widow for another man to take as his wife. I can't go through them 1x1 here at work, but the thing about the Bible, you have to look at it as a whole- people isolate statements and try to make it support some cause, but fail to read the context.

  4. #64
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Are you talking about today or in the past? Cause monks have engaged in violence in the past, and not just within Christianity. There were the warrior monks of China and Japan for example.
    Yeah but I think that its being applied in the trappist or withdrawn from the world sense, it was the Amish which I was thinking of as an example of people who where prepared to live very differently but as close as possible in accord with their own principles and precepts without attempting to compell others to do so also.

    Although they are only one example which I can think of and pretty recent if you consider a greater time scale, I'm trying to think of which order it is that established a mountain retreat in, I think it was France, removed entirely from the world and with that in mind as a precept.

    It is the radical alternative to terroristic or political religious creeds, in more ways the more challenging one which requires a greater faith too. I've long maintained that its a lot harder to live in accordance with principles in an imperfect world, which is necessarily imperfect and unperfectable, than to die for them. That's whether your motivated by spirituality or not.

  6. #66
    Sniffles
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    Well as far as the Christian context is concerned, I would refer to the role that monks played in inter-sectarian violence in Alexandria during Late Antiquity for example. Now is this inherently part of the monastic existence? I wouldn't say so, unless we're talking about specific orders of warrior monks(Knights Templar, Knights of Malta, etc). The example of Alexandrian violence demonstrates the dangers of mixing monasticism with political endeavors.

  7. #67

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    I'm interested in the warrior scholar traditions or warrior sages, do you know where that comes from Peguy? Would that be associated with the monks? I've known about wars being fought over libraries during the crusades but only vaguely and read about some of the librarians being described as warrior scholars.

  8. #68
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You're right it is, is that biblical and who believes that?




    They do draw him with a beard don't they!? Why do they even draw him? Are they retarded!?

  9. #69
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ok alot of these verses concern contexts involving warfare, in which the Israelites were fighting for their survival as a nation, and that often involves considerable brutality. General Sherman didn't remark that "war is hell" for no reason. And in the ancient world, warfare was a winner-take all affair. If you conquered your enemy's territory, you often had to enslave and kill many of them off - and yes this did unfortunately include children. If the children were allowed to survive, they would grow up and seek vengence upon your people. So you had to prevent that from happening so as to forbid further bloodshed descending upon your own people. So in a sense God is looking after the long-term interests of his people, which would be done out of love for them.
    I'm still not sure how having one's wife raped in broad daylight is a just, holy punishment, or why women are treated as "spoils of victory" in the Old Testament if God is so superior and loving and righteous. It all pretty much strikes me as men writing the Old Testament, then having more enlightened thoughts as they socially evolved in the New Testament.

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