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  1. #51
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Ok alot of these verses concern contexts involving warfare, in which the Israelites were fighting for their survival as a nation, and that often involves considerable brutality..
    There is one grammatical mistake that I particularly enjoy encountering. It has become almost fun for me to come across people who take the phrase "a lot" and condense it down into one word, because when someone says "alot," this is what I imagine:



    ...






  2. #52
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I am not the least bit upset.

    I'm changing my type to some sort of T so that the collective you can read the tone of my posts as they're actually intended.
    Feel free. If you're not upset though, then you're not upset. I'll take your word for it. I'm just saying that Jesus is the last person to associate with Old Testament slavery laws. He was more iconoclast than not. I mean, there wouldn't even be a label like "Old Testament" if it wasn't for him. No matter how many Christians want to view the Bible as representing some divinely inspired singular worldview, there were times when Jesus himself would throw things out the window, and just trump it with his own authority.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Feel free. If you're not upset though, then you're not upset. I'll take your word for it.
    Good. I just hear it quite a bit, when at times I'm joking, being sarcastic, or am being serious but feel almost flatline in terms of emotions and only excited mentally because of the topic. I think it partly has to do with the way I use language. I think I use words or expressions flippantly that some others reserve for occasions in which they are quite troubled or offended. It's intended to come across as funny or teasing or salty, not butthurt, which I guess is easier to interpret if you know me IRL.

    I'm just saying that Jesus is the last person to associate with Old Testament slavery laws. He was more iconoclast than not. I mean, there wouldn't even be a label like "Old Testament" if it wasn't for him. No matter how many Christians want to view the Bible as representing some divinely inspired singular worldview, there were times when Jesus himself would throw things out the window, and just trump it with his own authority.
    Yes, and I have thought about these things, having been raised Christian myself. I will take time to think about what Peguy and you have said before I reply again. However, it still doesn't especially impact any religious belief which I lack. Just know.

  4. #54
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    Seems I lost my original response. Oh well, I'll reconstruct as much as I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, but it's not. People of Judeo-Christian faiths say that they believe that these texts are holy words. Belief is a powerful thing - I guess if you were a sexually frustrated young man in an extremely repressive culture who believed he'd get numerous virgins at his own disposal upon death, you'd be doing some pretty crazy suicidal terrorist shit, too. It's all too easy to focus sexual frustration into physical acts of violence.
    So religiousity is just a matter of sexual frustration?

    I'm sure religion served a wonderful evolutionary purpose in terms of getting people under control, and also as centuries passed allowing them to become literate. However, we're reaching a point in humanity where that time is proving itself to be past, when rational atheists may behave more tolerantly and lovingly than many religious people.
    This view is largely outdated and is commonly referred to as "Whig History". Much of the latest scholarship seems to suggest we're moving into a "post-secular age". One element of this is the increasing interest in issues related to Political Theology, and how much of our political discourse is built upon religious presuppositions whether we realise it or not. Michael Allen Gillespie and other scholars have argued that modernity itself, depsite its self-serving myths of rationality and secularism, is actually built on certain theological premises that originally arose as a response to late Medieval Nominalism. Post-1789 history has shown that abolishing religion does not necessarily create a better world. Furthermore, the religious impulse in mankind does not fade but merely indulges in ersatz religions instead. So instead of killing for God or Allah, man kills in the name of Communism, Fascism, "Liberté, égalité, fraternité". Alister McGrath made the point that what we really face is not an issue of religion or even irreligion, but one of simple human nature. Humans are fallible creatures, and will do horrible things and seek to justify them. If not in religion then something else. Now Christianity teaches that humans are sinful thus fallible by nature and because of such we have to be ever vigilant to ourselves and others about what we believe and what we do with those beliefs. This is shown in many of the allegorical readings of the figure of the Anti-Christ, who in a way represents the kind of person who claims he does righteousness but doesn't really.

  5. #55
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm being totally serious. And whatever you may or may not believe there are scores of people who do believe those, and other bizarre, damaging things, because of religious texts.
    It's true that people frequently misuse religion. People also frequently misuse statistics. Perhaps we should stop using math altogether? Is it really the fault of mathematics that people misuse statistics? Actually the problem with statistics is really either ignorance or people who are trying to push their own agenda. Likewise the problems with religion have to do with ignorance or people trying to push their own agenda rather than the texts themselves.

    You are right that there are problems with religion, but I think you are placing the blame in the wrong spot.
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  6. #56
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Except when people misuse mathematics they are misusing something that is actually useful.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    When did you choose to believe, Lark?
    That question is very curious to me, its a little like saying when did you choose to acknowledge gravity? Or when did you realise rain was wet?

  8. #58
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I dont believe that Christianity is "ridiculous" and neither do I behave so dismissively about some of the greek or ancient metaphysical speculations, having read On The Gods by Cicero recently I was actually fairly impressed with some of their speculations and reasoning, though I dont believe the truth they do possess has parity with the beliefs I do profess myself. Its like mathematics, you can get close to the answer without being right and your working out will be useful but there's only one right answer.

    I can not believe that if Christianity where purely and simply a convention or habit that it would have endured at all, without wishing to appear condescending the view that it is merely convention and therefore a sort of arcane, nebulous, waste of time and cowardly vice is one I associate with youth and arrogance. I'm inclined to believe with Jung that spirituality is important but more so in the second half of life and failing to recognise this and somehow integrate it into your psychology results in mid-life crisis.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That question is very curious to me, its a little like saying when did you choose to acknowledge gravity? Or when did you realise rain was wet?
    Thank you.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It's true that people frequently misuse religion. People also frequently misuse statistics. Perhaps we should stop using math altogether? Is it really the fault of mathematics that people misuse statistics? Actually the problem with statistics is really either ignorance or people who are trying to push their own agenda. Likewise the problems with religion have to do with ignorance or people trying to push their own agenda rather than the texts themselves.

    You are right that there are problems with religion, but I think you are placing the blame in the wrong spot.
    To be honest true religion hasnt ever resulted in atrocity, violence and other abuses so much as ideology or religion as ideology, persons who individuallly and voluntarily create intentional communities to share their lives and beliefs with or who withdraw to lives of prayer and contemplation and reflection are not hurting anyone, in fact a lot of the time by example and often literary works they have helped many besides themselves or their immediate circle indirectly.

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