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  1. #31
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    When did you choose to believe, Lark?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Is this post serious or facetious? I don't think I could have written a more "glass half-empty" post if I tried.

    (Also for the record I don't believe in an ever burning hell. Nor do I think God will punish people simply for being homosexual, unbaptized, clinically depressed, or from another part of the world.)
    I'm being totally serious. And whatever you may or may not believe there are scores of people who do believe those, and other bizarre, damaging things, because of religious texts.

  3. #33
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    There is a thread about this already by Nico, you should check it out, although to be fair, it was filled by rantings of anger more than people debating the concept of gods existence.

  4. #34
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm being totally serious. And whatever you may or may not believe there are scores of people who do believe those, and other bizarre, damaging things, because of religious texts.

    ^I guess my point above (although I'm sure you noticed) is that I can always find a religious text to defy them. I notice a lot of religious people have some sorry ass reasons to condemn people too (and, also notice that atheists are mostly just responding to them).

  5. #35
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You'reWrongI'mRight View Post
    There is a thread about this already by Nico, you should check it out, although to be fair, it was filled by rantings of anger more than people debating the concept of gods existence.
    Unfortunately, my own threads are much less popular.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    ^I guess my point above (although I'm sure you noticed) is that I can always find a religious text to defy them. I notice a lot of religious people have some sorry ass reasons to condemn people too (and, also notice that atheists are mostly just responding to them).
    No, I'm not just responding to those who are filled with irrational hate for random things like being gay or a woman choosing to have a first-trimester abortion, but find absolutely nothing wrong with their own hate, or even violence toward those people. I was raised religious and at one time identified as Christian. I believe there are very kind, forgiving people who are Christians or Muslims or Jews. I just think those people are just conveniently ignoring passages in their own religious texts and comparisons of what is described in those texts to real world evidence and science that don't fit into their made-up world view.

    Christianity is every bit of ridiculous and silly as Wicca or revering Greek gods, but somehow people don't see that, and I think it's often because they can't seem to break out of being brainwashed as children, or they were frightened (or made hopeful) by the idea of a religious conception of god while in a heightened emotional state in a temple of worship.

    Apparently they've found that people who go to church are happy not because of being religious, but simply because it gives them a strong social safety net.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Christianity is every bit of ridiculous and silly as Wicca or revering Greek gods, but somehow people don't see that, and I think it's often because they can't seem to break out of being brainwashed as children, or they were frightened (or made hopeful) by the idea of a religious conception of god while in a heightened emotional state in a temple of worship.

    Apparently they've found that people who go to church are happy not because of being religious, but simply because it gives them a strong social safety net.
    Soon you will be punished for saying the truth. They do not like to hear it.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, I'm not just responding to those who are filled with irrational hate for random things like being gay or a woman choosing to have a first-trimester abortion, but find absolutely nothing wrong with their own hate, or even violence toward those people. I was raised religious and at one time identified as Christian. I believe there are very kind, forgiving people who are Christians or Muslims or Jews. I just think those people are just conveniently ignoring passages in their own religious texts and comparisons of what is described in those texts to real world evidence and science that don't fit into their made-up world view.
    Care to give some examples of this?

    Christianity is every bit of ridiculous and silly as Wicca or revering Greek gods, but somehow people don't see that, and I think it's often because they can't seem to break out of being brainwashed as children, or they were frightened (or made hopeful) by the idea of a religious conception of god while in a heightened emotional state in a temple of worship.
    Well perhaps in some cases, in other cases people can turn to Christianity for reasons other than you specify. People often turn away from Christianity for equally irrational reasons - such as being embittered from having grown up in a religious enviroment for example. Such was the case with the composer Verdi, who became atheist because a priest kicked him during mass when he was an altar boy. While people may hold beliefs for supposedly illegitimate reasons, it still doesn't show those beliefs are actually false. One can be right for the wrong reasons.

    Apparently they've found that people who go to church are happy not because of being religious, but simply because it gives them a strong social safety net.
    Well man is a social animal by nature, so strong inter-human relationships are an important component to human happiness overall. As is often said, the two great commandmants of Christianity are Love God and Love thy Neighbor. I don't quite understand this argument that the social component of religion is necessarily negative or invalidates religious belief as a whole.

  9. #39
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    If every man has beliefs, and every man is a leader (even of himself), then every man is religious. The only thing that varies is what a man is devoted to. Even secular humanists hold that mankind has intrinsic value in and of itself. Their beliefs are entirely faith based, whether they admit it or not. Unfortunately, there are some institutions in which faith and intuition have been relegated to the rank of "inferior byproducts of nature"; meanwhile, rationality has become a fetishistic practice of the "intellectual elite". Even among them, the evidence suggests that rationality proceeds from faith, and that the intellect proceeds from the will. Under the house of reason lies a firm rock of faithful devotion; though the house is sometimes furnished to cover the rock up. This 'rock', I believe, is the spiritual relationship between a man and the rest of everything around him, and even further beyond that to God.

    Some of you may have a distaste for organized religion, as though it's a sort of oppressor, or as though the social aspect of it somehow exposes it as "fake". I'm not too privy of it myself, just on gut instinct. But you must admit that it is amazing how some have them have created a balance by harnessing the chaos of the spirit and channeling it into the civilized conduct of the common man. The Truth does not only include scientific fact, but also ethics and personal devotion. Therefore, a man who values the truth cannot correctly justify his own conduct by referring to the natural order which has already been established. The backbone of the Judeo-Christian tradition isn't to cover up the facts, but to remind people to love each other. Though this rule is easily dismissed as crude, it is apparent how quickly we may forget it when we forget the existence of an absolute. We may even forget it still.

  10. #40
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    God from the bible does not exist. You cannot convince the bible believers that God doesn't exist, you just can't.
    However we do not know what lies outside of our universe. Is it just one big ball expanding, or one of many balls expanding.
    If the universe is limited there might just be something outside of it. But I'm pretty sure it's not some guy with a beard that created us after his own looks, that's ridiculous. Looking down from the clouds.

    I wonder who wrote the bible......
    However I do believe that the bible has served it's purpose in the past, uniting people, conditioning their behavior a little. I mean...1800 years ago there were no forensics, the odds of catching murderers was pretty slim, so some people may actually have not killed or stolen or whatever, because they feared god. Although most killers do not care about God.
    The bible also kept families together. And made people better (the ones who believed)

    It was a brilliant idea (that was abused a little), and I believe that it's obsolete now.

    I find it amusing that people are allowed to go to heaven or hell, but animals are not. If the rest of the life on Earth dies it just dies. If a human being dies something magical happens...gee.. that's awesome.
    Loci does have a place. A place is something tangible, concrete. It has a temperature.
    Interspace void has a place. It is therefore it has a temperature.

    Outerspace void does not have a temperature. It does not have loci. It does not have anything. It does not exist. There is nothing outside of the universe. There is no outside. If there were an outside, the universe would not expand.
    What is an absolute vacuum? It is not even there.

    Loci is finite and it has no end.

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