Loving God?

[hungrypossum]

So its:

Unbelievers: theory about Big Bang, still fuzzy. Many theories. Not sure. Still trying to work out what life is.

Believers: have the bible, also fuzzy. believe in God because (1) touched/experienced God (to varying degrees) (2) believe and are convicted to believe because of 'faith' (are attracted to the bible's message of love)

If God wanted us to make the bible alot clearer with logical explanations for everything, he could have I'm sure. But then everyone would have no reason not to believe and there wouldn't be the right motive to want to know God anymore. The bible states that if we came to him even though we didn't see him or touch him, our motives are greater and better than those who had to touch him to believe.

 

[unsung truth]

i like how you just implied that I'm an unbeliever... I'm catholic...

 

[MerkW]

As for the the universe membranes colliding... I haven't heard about that, but seems interesting. Still doesn't disprove God, might prove it even more so considering the membranes had to be established somehow. All we understand seems to be within the realm of physics, now that begs the question: what created physics?

I have a question for you:

We are posed with two options as to how the universe came about--option a and option b. Option a proposes that the universe was created my a superior being, or deity. Option b proposes that the universe was not created by such. Which is more likely--an omnipotent being creates the universe, defying the laws of physics (among other things), or that all that exists has forever existed, and will continue to exist for an infinite duration?

Disclaimer: I am not voicing my spiritual beliefs in this argument. I will remain detached and play devil's advocate.

 

[MerkW]

So its:

Unbelievers: theory about Big Bang, still fuzzy. Many theories. Not sure. Still trying to work out what life is.

Believers: have the bible, also fuzzy. believe in God because (1) touched/experienced God (to varying degrees) (2) believe and are convicted to believe because of 'faith' (are attracted to the bible's message of love)

If God wanted us to make the bible alot clearer with logical explanations for everything, he could have I'm sure. But then everyone would have no reason not to believe and there wouldn't be the right motive to want to know God anymore. The bible states that if we came to him even though we didn't see him or touch him, our motives are greater and better than those who had to touch him to believe.

Human interpretation of sensory data is flawed. Sensory data itself can be flawed. It can not always be a reliable source (i.e. pure reason > empiricism/experiential data) If you have, in fact, actually have had divine sensory experiences, then I would recommend that you visit a neurologist.

So tell me, what are some logical reasons for belief in a deity?

 

[unsung truth]

happiness

 

[MerkW]

happiness

Sorry, recognizing the flaw of my previous question (since, yes, there are several reasons I could think of for the mere belief in a deity), let me rephrase:

What are some logical reasons you are able to provide for existence of God?

 

[hungrypossum]

i implied what? you were nowhere on my mind when i wrote that post

 

[hungrypossum]

What are some logical reasons you are able to provide for existence of God?

Oh me? I speak in tongues ^^

 

[MerkW]

Oh me? I speak in tongues ^^

That was completely useless. You provided me with no logical argument.

 

[hungrypossum]

the logical argument is that i can do something supernatural ^^

 

[unsung truth]

you exist, the particles/energy which created you exist, physics exists.

and your option A and B theory has for the most part been disproved. Einstein's theories lead to the conclusion that there was a beginning to the universe, hence it must've been created somehow.

If you take that previous idea that universal membranes collided, then those membranes had to come from somewhere, and those universes had to be created at some point by something... if you keep tracing it back it appears that we only get closer to option of something superior creating everything. (it's not only a question of the particles that are before us, but the energy which created them and the creation of the laws which guided these processes)

There may be fallacy in our sciences or something that has been undiscovered, but as to our knowledge to date, it seems that something greater than us created everything, IMO.

 

[sassafrassquatch]

I swear to Thor I must be speaking Swahili.

Let's try a picture.

There's me in the middle, totally confused.

My simple, harmless, lovable fuzzball of a point which I have been trying to make this entire thread and yet everyone seems to be oblivious to is this: A person's spiritual beliefs have no substance. They are only opinions.

You say all paths lead to God? hungrypossum would say Jesus is the only path to God.

If there is a god or multiple gods I would like him, her or them to speak to me and tell me which religion is correct or if people can just create their own spiritual path. Not that I intend to worship, I just like to know these things. If Islam should happen to be correct then I would like Allah to tell me so I can prepare myself for an eternity in hell if there is a hell.


Hypothetically, let's say substitute continues on as he is and when he is ripe and old, snuffs it.

He finds himself in the presence of Jesus H Christ his own self! Shit! The Southern Baptists were right after all. God does hate fags, abortion is murder, the earth is 6,000 years old, virgin birth, etc.

Now wouldn't it have been helpful if God had dropped him a hint.

God: "Dude, you're doing it wrong. Southern Baptists, check it out."

substitute: "Oh, hey. Thanks God. I almost went to hell."

God: "10-4, good buddy."

 

[MerkW]

the logical argument is that i can do something supernatural ^^

Ok. There has been a study conducted regarding individuals participating in glossolalia. They have been monitored neurologically and there utterances analyzed by linguists. It is not a language, for one, because there is no defined structure, which defines a language. Secondly, brain scans have shown that while participating in glossolalia, individuals have a flow of brain chemicals away from the linguistic processing center of the brain, and towards the part of the brain that processes emotions. Neurologists have shown that such individuals are performing a form of self-induced hypnosis. Such individuals have similarly been psycho-analyzed. Results have found such people to often have mild tension and neuroses. Glossolaliacs with no religious connotation (as well as some who DO have a religious connotation) frequently are found to be suffering from some form of psychosis

My point is, to be rather blunt, most likely, you are (1) engaging in a form of self-hypnosis, (2) blatantly lying, or (3) are psychotic.

 

[unsung truth]

that's nice and all that you have that sentiment... but it doesnt work for reasons stated previously

and i just gave a logical cause-effect reasoning for why there is a superior force/being

instead of just being forced along by other people, explore the topic for yourself, take our ideas and look at them from different perspectives, take your experiences and analyze them to see what they tell you. I'm not going to be able to outline an essay with a data table that'll say Q.E.D God exists.

 

[MerkW]

you exist, the particles/energy which created you exist, physics exists.

and your option A and B theory has for the most part been disproved. Einstein's theories lead to the conclusion that there was a beginning to the universe, hence it must've been created somehow.

Er...not precisely. According to the laws of physics, matter can neither be created nor destroyed. So, your argument is flawed.

Also, where did god come from, might I inquire?

 

[MerkW]

and i just gave a logical cause-effect reasoning for why there is a superior force/being

Yeah. And I just countered it.

instead of just being forced along by other people

Explain what you mean by this.

 

[sassafrassquatch]

Debating creation? Oh my sweet Lords of Kobol, this thread just entered a whole new level of suck.

 

[unsung truth]

that previous post was to sass and his picture

okay... but the laws of physics had to be created somehow, I mean I can't see arbitrary laws coming out of nothingness.

And where did God come from is indeed a conundrum which i do not have the answer to

 

[unsung truth]

not a debate, an exchange of ideas; not like either of us has something at stake here

 

[sassafrassquatch]

that previous post was to sass and his picture

okay... but the laws of physics had to be created somehow, I mean I can't see arbitrary laws coming out of nothingness.

And where did God come from is indeed a conundrum which i do not have the answer to