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Thread: Loving God?

  1. #321

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    Planetshakers is a charismatic church, and it Is a famous church - many Christians who come to Melbourne visit it at least one. It is one of those place alot of people go to to get a "touch from God". I have brought people there from my previous Carlton church, and I can tell you that though they are Christians, they DO believe that God is the one who perform such miracles in church, BUT they don't believe that we should be doing faith healings etc.

    I hypothesize the reason for this is psychological disturbance and compensation. I.e. the "born-again Christians" are the one's with the most psychological insecurities and/or problems, and thus compensate by being particularly vocal about their beliefs, which act as a force that subdues the inner disturbances.
    I don't disagree with you - there's a verse in the bible Jesus asks who would love more: two men owe a moneylender cash. One owes 50 and the other owes 500. The moneylender cancels their debt. Who would love him more? And the answer was the one with the 500 bill of course. If Jesus has done a great thing for you in your life, wouldn't you love him and testify for him?

    But many of the pastors in our church, such as Henry Seeley (very famous Christian song writer) was a Christian all his life. And he writes and testifies about the Holy Spirit all the time. He is not any less vocal than I am. YouTube - Henry Seeley Interview

    There's also this guy I met Judah Smith: been a Christian all his life. He's an evangelist.

    YouTube - PS08 Blog - Judah Smith

    I disagree. Not a single Christian I have met speak in tongues. If I am not correct, in these days, as previously mentioned, this is an exclusively evangelical practice.
    That's really sad because speaking in tongues goes hand in hand with being baptized in the Holy spirit!

  2. #322
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I think I'm the one who introduced judging with this post

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post129347

    I was annoyed at the fact that the concept of God as something beyond the Christian God- and therefore any post I'd made- was being completely and totally ignored and I was feeling slightly shunned by y'all
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #323
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    Planetshakers is a charismatic church, and it Is a famous church - many Christians who come to Melbourne visit it at least one. It is one of those place alot of people go to to get a "touch from God". I have brought people there from my previous Carlton church, and I can tell you that though they are Christians, they DO believe that God is the one who perform such miracles in church, BUT they don't believe that we should be doing faith healings etc.

    I don't disagree with you - there's a verse in the bible Jesus asks who would love more: two men owe a moneylender cash. One owes 50 and the other owes 500. The moneylender cancels their debt. Who would love him more? And the answer was the one with the 500 bill of course. If Jesus has done a great thing for you in your life, wouldn't you love him and testify for him?
    Well, glossolalia is a required aspect of Christianity, so I do not see what is so "sad." If anything is sad, it is your dogmatic nature.

    That said, could you please attend to the points that I have addressed in two of my previous posts?

    (1) Note A

    (2) Note B
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  4. #324
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    *pops in* Guys, I hate to be the bad guy here because I'm normally good~ but perhaps we should leave hungrypossum alone now. You will never reason with her and it's okay for her to have her beliefs because it does not affect you.

    I hope

    *pops out*

    I'm actually wondering though if this is a massive hoax on her part. If so, what fun! I do enjoy teasing, to a certain limit. If not, carry on the crusade!

    Disclaimer: Any corrections/notes are welcomed. All pokes of fun are meant for humour. If you can't take it, break it. I'll heroically save your funny bone in your stead. You can march on without it, trooper!

    Edit: And I was really sad no one refuted my arguments on history/religion/myth prior, whether by hungrypossum, okay really her but anyone else too!. believing in god or not. I wanted to shoot back! I really wanted to!

  5. #325
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    *pops in* Guys, I hate to be the bad guy here because I'm normally good~ but perhaps we should leave hungrypossum alone now. You will never reason with her and it's okay for her to have her beliefs because it does not affect you.
    I am not picking on anyone. I simply am curious as to why certain people are so strong and certain in their religious beliefs. I am merely inquiring.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
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  6. #326

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    GUYS! I'm very sorry pals, I really can't stay online anymore. I simply must hit the books. I told you, if there really was a God, then why wouldn't there be moves in the supernatural? I don't believe you can call me narrowminded because I communicate with God all the time, and this is what you call crazy. Let me illustrate: animals do some things by "instinct". They seem to be able to hear a voice: who told the bee to fly from flower to flower in figures of 8?

    Now human beings assume we're the only one who can't hear that voice of "instinct". NAY. I was surprised when I realized the God the Christians talk about is real, and he does speak to us. You said you can accept that he speaks to us, well then YES he does. It's called the Holy Spirit, the bible says when we invited Jesus in to live with us he does. And right now he's telling me it's better I do well in this exam then to be talking to people who don't want to believe. This is what he just said to me: "Don't worry about testifying for God. Your intention is good, but next time learn to obey God and trust him when he tells you you're wasting your time online".

    Everything I say is going to sound harsh to your ears, I do not blame you, I'm a stranger to you and you have every right to be suspicious.

    Now for instinct: The pastors at our church do NOT apologize for being able to look at a person, and know what problems that person is going through in life. God tells them, and so they pray over them. They have prayed for me over problems I have I've never told anyone. THAT's one reason our church is famous - because the pastors are as good as modern day Noahs and Elijahs. They really do pray 24/7. So when they pray people get healed. Things happen. That's where the whole "presence of God" thing happens. These people literally shine the light, when they pray over you you literally can crumple on the ground. You see, it may look like there is no God and no "miracles" and no modern day apostle. But oh yea, its happening in church.

    In our church, the pastor can be preaching, when he can stop, listen, and go "You over there...you need a healing...God's gonna heal you right now". And it does happen. All the time.

    It's hard to believe evangelists and tele-evangelists I know. Even Christians themselves may not believe in them. Until it happens to you. I know the touch of God because he's light - there's no darkness in it. There's no fear, despair or unhappiness in his presence. And I really can't explain that to you! It'll just sound scary.

    About why God allows modern day evils: Oh my! How many times have I said that we blame what men do on God? But you say you don't see God around, so why is it that when something bad happens he caused it? And the question too is why doesn't God punish "evil" men right? Because all of us have stumbled. And God can see that all of us have a potential to do good and come to repentance. Now I have ALOT to say about this but I don't have the time right now, and my previous posts have mentioned some of this.

    Here's my post on it: [url=http://hungrypossum.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/a-cause-greater-than-life/]A cause greater than life?

  7. #327
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    GUYS! I'm very sorry pals, I really can't stay online anymore. I simply must hit the books. I told you, if there really was a God, then why wouldn't there be moves in the supernatural? I don't believe you can call me narrowminded because I communicate with God all the time, and this is what you call crazy. Let me illustrate: animals do some things by "instinct". They seem to be able to hear a voice: who told the bee to fly from flower to flower in figures of 8?

    Now human beings assume we're the only one who can't hear that voice of "instinct". NAY. I was surprised when I realized the God the Christians talk about is real, and he does speak to us. You said you can accept that he speaks to us, well then YES he does. It's called the Holy Spirit, the bible says when we invited Jesus in to live with us he does. And right now he's telling me it's better I do well in this exam then to be talking to people who don't want to believe. This is what he just said to me: "Don't worry about testifying for God. Your intention is good, but next time learn to obey God and trust him when he tells you you're wasting your time online".

    Everything I say is going to sound harsh to your ears, I do not blame you, I'm a stranger to you and you have every right to be suspicious.

    Now for instinct: The pastors at our church do NOT apologize for being able to look at a person, and know what problems that person is going through in life. God tells them, and so they pray over them. They have prayed for me over problems I have I've never told anyone. THAT's one reason our church is famous - because the pastors are as good as modern day Noahs and Elijahs. They really do pray 24/7. So when they pray people get healed. Things happen. That's where the whole "presence of God" thing happens. These people literally shine the light, when they pray over you you literally can crumple on the ground. You see, it may look like there is no God and no "miracles" and no modern day apostle. But oh yea, its happening in church.

    In our church, the pastor can be preaching, when he can stop, listen, and go "You over there...you need a healing...God's gonna heal you right now". And it does happen. All the time.

    It's hard to believe evangelists and tele-evangelists I know. Even Christians themselves may not believe in them. Until it happens to you. I know the touch of God because he's light - there's no darkness in it. There's no fear, despair or unhappiness in his presence. And I really can't explain that to you! It'll just sound scary.

    About why God allows modern day evils: Oh my! How many times have I said that we blame what men do on God? But you say you don't see God around, so why is it that when something bad happens he caused it? And the question too is why doesn't God punish "evil" men right? Because all of us have stumbled. And God can see that all of us have a potential to do good and come to repentance. Now I have ALOT to say about this but I don't have the time right now, and my previous posts have mentioned some of this.

    Here's my post on it: [url=http://hungrypossum.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/a-cause-greater-than-life/]A cause greater than life?
    I am not "blaming" god, I am simply wondering why he would allow so many of my innocent ancestors to be killed for no reason. Is he not loving and omnipotent?
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
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  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    I am not picking on anyone. I simply am curious as to why certain people are so strong and certain in their religious beliefs. I am merely inquiring.
    You didn't get my joke! Believe you me, it becomes rather tedious and draining after combatting 30 students in a class of 33 on religion for a whole term. A whole term.

    And I'm a pacifist, I swear!

  9. #329
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    *pops in* Guys, I hate to be the bad guy here because I'm normally good~ but perhaps we should leave hungrypossum alone now. You will never reason with her and it's okay for her to have her beliefs because it does not affect you.
    The reality is that people's religious views do affect everyone. Back in 2004 the issue that was cited for giving Bush the edge with the Evangelical vote was gay marriage. He won based on beliefs, and subsequently that lead to a war on gay marriage and gay civil rights across the country in every state.

    Now that is just an illustration. I know that HP is never going to vote in an American election. But the point is, that her beliefs do influence other people. And when I hear her saying things like, homosexuality is only about lust, it's a sin, and Christians have to go out and stop the spread of that sin, then I feel it is my duty to argue that kind of unsupported belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    The reality is that people's religious views do affect everyone. Back in 2004 the issue that was cited for giving Bush the edge with the Evangelical vote was gay marriage. He won based on beliefs, and subsequently that lead to a war on gay marriage and gay civil rights across the country in every state.

    Now that is just an illustration. I know that HP is never going to vote in an American election. But the point is, that her beliefs do influence other people. And when I hear her saying things like, homosexuality is only about lust, it's a sin, and Christians have to go out and stop the spread of that sin, then I feel it is my duty to argue that kind of unsupported belief system.
    I was speaking in specifics to either you or to whomever is reading who is not in agreeance with HP. It will not affect you because you will not allow it to. In Canada, our majority Liberal government at the time voted for gay marriage and made right after right for them in rapid succession over the years until every Province had the same system of rights put in place. After the Conservatives won a minority and brought it up again to appeal it, they were voted down (even 12 or so on their side disagreed with them). I was seriously freaked they might win... I can't recall who told me this but in Canada, we as a people, get rid of officials or who's in charge if we collectively don't like'em (not sure if that's true but it makes me happy and I'll look it up sometime to ascertain its validity)

    Constantly arguing with the same person who will not bend is pretty tireless IMHO and sometimes cruel for them and for you, depending (yes, they are cruel when they fight you but two wrongs don't make a right...Hey, maybe the bible is sorta okay ) If you read my battle above against former classmates during an entire class, well extra credit summer class but still, on homosexuality. There is moot point until they become more open-minded. I'm not saying to stop or that I have, holy hell I haven't! I Fe anytime someone makes some fuckingly rejected or braindeadingly inane comment about it or anything else I cherish close to my heart while trying to remain rational about it all... that battle is sometimes won, sometimes not...

    But I've learned in all my 21 years of sprouting life that sometimes we need to let go of one tree in order to help another forest. So forget her and try to help someone else and also preferrably someone who affects you on a personal level. Family, friends, their family and friends. They know you and you seem like a nice guy (although I fear your bite...). It's when friends or family who are opposed to you being bi or gay w/e (you still didn't tell me if you wanted to ditch the labels, not the definitions, but I digress... ) but they can point at you and say "Well, I don't like Kiddo being ___ but he's a lot nicer than those other ___". It opens them up to other people being adamantly against LGBT them because they can argue "not all ___ are like that, I know someone!" etc etc ad nauseum.

    It's not just about people affecting based on religion or whatever, it's about the allowance from others in whether they choose to believe in it or not. Another is propaganda given to them and thus perpetuated after by them...and choosing to be easily swayed...well, maybe not choosing but without choice if they are ignorant of the facts or kept so. I'm sure HP is honest in her beliefs of whatever they may be but honesty itself is not indicative of the strength behind her intellectual or emotional comprehension of that honesty. Hope I made sense with that last part.

    It takes a lot of work to get over our initial upbringings, whether good or bad. It takes a lot of participation from people to work together for a cause when in a, or for a, minority or to open people up especially when there's little understanding or favour for them at the time. But it's been known to work eventually or at this moment, I might've been your slave writing out your responses lol

    I don't really carry upset feelings from that one summer class, however over time they've become rather fond as the feelings dilute, when I'd hear points on: "Lesbians are sexy but I don't want to see man up in man". Okay, that was one particularliy stupid guy but for some undamnable reason I can't forget him or his STUPIDITY whenever I think of the average person! Holy hell! :steam:

    I feel it is my duty to argue that kind of unsupported belief system.
    I feel it's my duty to help you or anyone else with what they hold sacred to them not to cave under that kind of pressure. So, go find a new forest or climb a new tree. Have you checked your backyard lately?

    Edit: I will add that sometimes, in my frustration, I've been a real bitch by fist fucking people's beliefs into the ground, however nicely made was my punch (I am polite by nature but I don't mind knuckle-ringing you with my polite words). However, it's somewhat waned as I've holed myself from people these past few years.

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