User Tag List

First 202829303132 Last

Results 291 to 300 of 335

Thread: Loving God?

  1. #291
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    ...but I think you've already been given the workings of an answer in both your assertion that you feel inundated and bombarded by conflicting claims and instructions from different religions, and the suggestions of others that "by their fruits shall ye recognize them".

    Think about it... if you see someone who is a Muslim showing good fruits, and a Christian showing those same fruits, and a Hindu and a Jew and a Taoist - all showing those same fruits... using your imagination, what does this tell you? Either a) they're all valid or b) people can achieve enlightenment through their own humanity, and any philosophy or religion can serve as either a leg-up, or a stumbling block, depending how it's used.

    As for how we can know that God/s is/are loving and want that, well... that can be explained as well. I just don't have time or inclination right now to do so. Try this...

    But it seems your primary motivation for and potential use for religion is getting yourself to heaven, right? Again... pretty alien to me... but good luck with it Heaven and hell don't really feature much in my philosophy, except as states of mind that we do to ourselves. My motivation is more about improving life here and now, for myself and for others. Well, that's what it was in the beginning... it's now just love for love's sake. I'm just stating that for the record... I don't expect you to understand, sympathize or agree with it.

    Given that our dominant functions are the exact opposites of each other, it's pretty unlikely that in the course of an internet forum thread, we're going to be reconciled entirely. But try and focus on that being the source of our misunderstanding, rather than just putting it down to me being an idiot
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  2. #292
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    IS??
    Socionics
    InFj
    Posts
    525

    Default

    Sin, insofar as my understanding extends, is "missing the mark" that is; trying to live by the Ten Commandments (which seem perfectly reasonable), but being human, to experience periodic setbacks. Sin can be forgiven.

    Evil, on the other hand IMO is the willfull, wanton violation of those same commandments in pursuit of personal pleasure or gain, without regard to the rest of creation, or evolved creation.

    Just for kicks...some gnostic gospels consider that the god of Israel is a demi-urge (a fallen angel?) not the creator God. Further that Hell is...here and now. You're walking around in it. You choose to make it the Kingdom of God or Hell, by your behaviour.

    Is it a test? What is the purpose? Be the best "you"...the most creative, generous and developed soul? benefit all creation with whatever energy and circumstance you have been gifted? Embody justice and the radical vision of Jesus, son of Joseph? This was not a happy peaceful guy...From what I understand he was pissed off and impatient...he had a unique vision of the "kingdom of god" that few capitalists could embrace....a denial of this reality and these bodies...but a violent acceptance of our need to respond to the better angels of our nature, while we are here trapped in this plane.

    Much of these debates seem to be predicated upon a partial or "influenced" interpretation of what history has come down to us...Is Jesus the path or Buddah or Mohammed?....Many humans have taken thier messages and twisted them to their own advantage....see Paul. If you choose to be a Christian, simply follow those Ten Commandments provided to you....you need nothing more, obey your law. Have you had a vision or estatic experience? Great! It is not so much wether or not you had this event, but tell me what was the content? Please, see John Dominic Crossan's work... I am a poor interpreter of it.
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  3. #293
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    In Borat the movie (documentary, rather) the actor walked into a church and got baptized in the holy spirit, he started speaking in tongues too! To this date I'm not aware Sacha Baron Cohev believes in what he received
    I am quite sure that Sacha Baron Cohen was joking.

    When you're speaking in tongues, you're totally conscious, you're the one who controls your speaking. The ability comes in the fact that your tongue can move in a way that can form certain syllables.
    In that case, then there is certainly nothing that seems remarkable about it.

    Er what does circumflex mean.
    This is a circumflex: ^

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    If he's God, he created himself of course! It says that the nature and essence of God is the emotion we feel of "love" itself. Love in itself, the truest form, with no fear attached to it. He's always giving. So God = a supernatural giving force we cannot understand. Hate = destructive force. Love = creates.
    Again, this goes against the laws of physics. It is much more likely that things go according to the laws of physics, then things not doing such.



    Oh i tell you, this guy was born without a sense of smell! He always had to asked others if he smelled. Then after church prayer he was like IM HEALED!!!! all his homies, i included, were stunned. WHAT???? even though we'd seen it before, but this time to a friend near us. and you wonder why people in church are always jumping about as if they had no pride.
    Such seemingly odd occurrences have been frequently been recorded, and may easily be explained medically.

    About morality: the problem is that as humans we think we're moral if we don't rape, kill, steal etc. but once we understand everything we do changes history. even a small thing, like deciding to go out or stay in at home, can change things drastically. (i.e, being morbid, i walk out the door and get hit by a bus and die) and so, deciding to say something hateful to someone, or not, changes things. I think, if you ever come to realize that we can make so much change just by the way we choose to live our life...
    You dodged the question, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by unsung truth View Post
    But then where did the energy come from? i mean we can keep asking forever where did this come from and it seems that there will be no end to it. If the infinite number of universes theory is to be valid then isn't there a need for structure in between the verses? So before we could make that claim we would have to explain that structure and where it came from.
    I don't know, the theory of a superior being and multiple universes both seem valid to me, perhaps they are connected somehow? Maybe God created the multi-verse? Both are eloquent.
    Yet, there's just something inexplicable that draws me towards the idea of a superior being, that sense of purpose, and that all this beauty around us was created by a divine hand... but it seems that it is just as eloquent if it came from chaos. Both theories fulfill my idea of creating our own purpose in this world.
    Where did the energy come from? It always existed, possibly. For an infinite amount of time in the past. It is much more likely that all matter and energy that exists in the universe has always existed and shall continue to do so for an infinite amount of time, simply fluctuating--changing in form, yet with never any additional matter being created or destroyed.

    You STILL have not answered my question as to why the creation of the universe via a deity (thus defying the laws of physics in many ways) seems more likely than what scientists generally accept. Could you please answer my question?


    Just one thing bothers me about the theory w/o God... it's that we are intelligent, we have thoughts, emotions, and many people, including myself, have a strong idea of the soul.
    That's your problem. You feeling in such away about this issue doesn't make it a stronger argument. Many things work counter-intuitively.

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    ...
    Ok. Perhaps you could form logical reasons for a belief in the Bible and God, rather than giving an outline of your personal feelings/experience? To be honest, I couldn't care less about how you feel. I would like to hear your reasoning.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
    Solitary/Idiosyncratic, 5w6 sp/sx
    RL(x)EI (RlxE|I|)- Inquisitive Dominant
    Reserved Idealist
    ILI-Ni/INTp

  4. #294
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    Ok. Perhaps you could form logical reasons for a belief in the Bible and God, rather than giving an outline of your personal feelings/experience? To be honest, I couldn't care less about how you feel. I would like to hear your reasoning.
    Hungrypossum has made it clear that her posts are not suppose to make any logical or intelligent sense whatsoever. She only wants to preach. There just isn't any sense in taking her seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #295
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    TIGR
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    5,936

    Default

    Can you neg rep a thread? :confused:
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  6. #296
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Hungrypossum has made it clear that her posts are not suppose to make any logical or intelligent sense whatsoever. She only wants to preach. There just isn't any sense in taking her seriously.
    Quite a valid point.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
    Solitary/Idiosyncratic, 5w6 sp/sx
    RL(x)EI (RlxE|I|)- Inquisitive Dominant
    Reserved Idealist
    ILI-Ni/INTp

  7. #297

    Default

    Ok. Perhaps you could form logical reasons for a belief in the Bible and God, rather than giving an outline of your personal feelings/experience? To be honest, I couldn't care less about how you feel. I would like to hear your reasoning.
    Then I'm very sorry, but human logic defies God because he's God - we're so small when we stand next to the ocean, yet we think our heads can comprehend what he is. The infinite. I told you already, if he gave us solid proof in the bible that he's there, people would just HAVe to believe. But he doesn't want that. He wants us to believe for this motive - that we know that our life right now feels like a desert. We're always confused about life and what is is, and we see that society is a mess.

    The only proof I have is my story, which I'm not sure you read. I wrote that healings happen in church, how do you expect me to explain technically how it happens? How do you expect me to explain speaking in tongues? Or the fact is, I'm not a game addict, a sex addict or an alcoholic addict anymore. Something happened after those people prayed for me - I knew I was free, I didn't covet after it again. That I don't need all that because something in my soul has been satisfied so much after I accepted the Holy Spirit.

    How do I explain all this to you with terms and theories? Science researched speaking in tongues and what have they concluded? That it's still a mystery.

    Why is it when the crippled man who can walk after being prayed for jump up in joy, go around telling everyone in his neighbourhood, look!!! look! im healed. And they ask for logic. How? How many people have been healed in Jesus name? And they're all accidents? Some will thus believe, some won't.

    Men in the bible wanted to kill the disciples and Jesus because they saw his miracles, but they didn't believe. They wanted explanations too. We only have such a short period of time to live, you aren't going to find out all the science behind why it happened and in words and theories. How many generations have come and gone and not known why they were there?

    The main reason for disbelief? Pride. Logic and science books explain everything, not people who "feel" things. I am far too clever, and too wise to follow such drivel. God is smaller than me and I can scrutinize him. Put life into a bundles of smart-sounding words and theories for me so I can understand. I explained previously I could not even understand the word bigotry, yet someone wanted me to write less "primitively". I'm sorry, this is the way I write - for universality's sake, and because I'm Asian - we tend to speak in simple stories and metaphorically because that's the way we understand each other on the streets.

    Yet the logic I'm telling you is that God is too big for us to understand. Do you know what speaking in tongues is said to be in the bible? While we often pray to God, he desires us to pray in a language of "his intelligence". It means that our human languages is actually too simple for him, and too simple to express some words and things we want to communicate.

  8. #298
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,122

    Default

    I'm sorry- but I just can't beleive in faith healing I've seen studies, documentaries AND a Simpson's episode that all prove that it's just a trick
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #299
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    Then I'm very sorry, but human logic defies God because he's God - we're so small when we stand next to the ocean, yet we think our heads can comprehend what he is. The infinite. I told you already, if he gave us solid proof in the bible that he's there, people would just HAVe to believe. But he doesn't want that. He wants us to believe for this motive - that we know that our life right now feels like a desert. We're always confused about life and what is is, and we see that society is a mess.

    The only proof I have is my story, which I'm not sure you read. I wrote that healings happen in church, how do you expect me to explain technically how it happens? How do you expect me to explain speaking in tongues? Or the fact is, I'm not a game addict, a sex addict or an alcoholic addict anymore. Something happened after those people prayed for me - I knew I was free, I didn't covet after it again. That I don't need all that because something in my soul has been satisfied so much after I accepted the Holy Spirit.

    How do I explain all this to you with terms and theories? Science researched speaking in tongues and what have they concluded? That it's still a mystery.

    Why is it when the crippled man who can walk after being prayed for jump up in joy, go around telling everyone in his neighbourhood, look!!! look! im healed. And they ask for logic. How? How many people have been healed in Jesus name? And they're all accidents?
    Some will thus believe, some won't.
    Based off this passage, I will presume that you are quite unfamiliar with the mathematics of probability.


    Men in the bible wanted to kill the disciples and Jesus because they saw his miracles, but they didn't believe. They wanted explanations too. We only have such a short period of time to live, you aren't going to find out all the science behind why it happened and in words and theories. How many generations have come and gone and not known why they were there?
    Might I ask you another question? Why do you believe everything that is written in the Bible to be true? Why isn't the Holy Koran more valid? Why do you choose to worship Jesus, as opposed to Allah, Ahura Mazda and Zoroaster, Zeus, Odin, Osiris, Buddha, or any of the others? Do you realize that texts as old as the Bible are virtually guaranteed to have MANY factual inaccuracies, especially taking into consideration the fact that when it was written, the human understanding of the mechanics and laws behind nature were radically under-developed.

    The main reason for disbelief? Pride. Logic and science books explain everything, not people who "feel" things. I am far too clever, and too wise to follow such drivel. God is smaller than me and I can scrutinize him. Put life into a bundles of smart-sounding words and theories for me so I can understand. I explained previously I could not even understand the word bigotry, yet someone wanted me to write less "primitively". I'm sorry, this is the way I write - for universality's sake, and because I'm Asian - we tend to speak in simple stories and metaphorically because that's the way we understand each other on the streets.
    I strongly disagree with you here. I am not an atheist, but I virtually all atheists and agnostics with whom I am acquainted have no "pride" whatsoever in relation to their disbelief. The prime reason for their disbelief, rather, is the fact that most of them perceive that empirical evidence points more towards the non-existence of a deity.

    ....etc. Yet the logic I'm telling you is that God is too big for us to understand. Do you know what speaking in tongues is said to be in the bible? While we often pray to God, he desires us to pray in a language of "his intelligence". It means that our human languages is actually too simple for him, and too simple to express some words and things we want to communicate.
    So in conclusion of this whole post of yours, you are saying that you have no logic to support your belief in a god, but only your personal experience? That's sad.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
    Solitary/Idiosyncratic, 5w6 sp/sx
    RL(x)EI (RlxE|I|)- Inquisitive Dominant
    Reserved Idealist
    ILI-Ni/INTp

  10. #300
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm sorry- but I just can't beleive in faith healing I've seen studies, documentaries AND a Simpson's episode that all prove that it's just a trick
    Indeed. According to records and medical files, there have been no "miracle healing" ever recorded that couldn't be explained by medical science. In other words, all "miraculous cures" recorded by doctors are occasions were it is likely that such could have just happened by mere chance or probability. Dawkins once pointed out, for example, that there have been no documentation of, for example, the re-growth of a severed limb.

    NOTE: When I refer to records and medical files, I am referring to the modern era only.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
    Solitary/Idiosyncratic, 5w6 sp/sx
    RL(x)EI (RlxE|I|)- Inquisitive Dominant
    Reserved Idealist
    ILI-Ni/INTp

Similar Threads

  1. Experiencing God's Love
    By Lily flower in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-08-2011, 11:02 AM
  2. why doesn't God love me?
    By miss fortune in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 192
    Last Post: 05-05-2010, 10:05 AM
  3. About the thread "Loving God"
    By hungrypossum in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 02-20-2008, 06:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO