Loving God?

[Kiddo]

There is a big difference in believing in a Loving God and believing in the Christian God. The latter is judgmental, authoritarian, and contradictory. If anyone wants to make a case otherwise, then let's see it.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I'm I'm not sure why you're resorting to what passes in these parts for intellectual histrionics.

(although, if it was pure sarcasm, I suppose it was sort of cute )

You missed the point. All moral judgment stem from human nature. Good, bad, sad, beautiful, etc. Are only possible from within a human judgment.

Can you imagine us making the same judgments if we were non-human beings and if our judgment applied to non-human creatures? Is there any sense in calling an alligator evil for eating a baby?

Moreover, if we wired in a very different fashion. If we experienced our thoughts and emotions differently, could it really be possible that we'd have the same notions of good,evil, beautiful, sad etc? If supposedly somehow we were wired in a way where we were conditioned to accept sadness as a quality that allows us to function soundly.

Essentially, animals do share the same characteristics as we do. They gravitate towards pleasure and avoid pain. Yet, what precludes them from being sound moral agents is that they simply do not have the intellect to be judged on ethical basis.

Yet again, because they are wired in a radically different fashion, had they had an ethic, it would be incommensurable to ours.

Now imagine a being like God, even more different from us than animals, who for all we know may function soundly from things that evoke sad feelings and thoughts. Or even more so doesnt have thoughts or feelings at all? Could he have a workable ethical framework for us?

Actually, I was just saying you don't have a framework by which to be sure of your judgment. That's all. )

In the end, my point is, there could not be another framework. Because Judgments outside of the human scope of morality are useless.

 

[SillySapienne]

So the Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis because they didn't know God? The Tutsis were hacked to death by the Hutus because they didn't know God? I assume the people who drowned in the 2004 tsunami didn't know God either?

Praise Allah, a human being with common sense!!!!

Yes yes Tsunami and natural disasters. God must HATE US! Ok, this is VERY hard for me to explain cos right now, your human body and everything around you is probably important. Since you don't know whats gonna happen to you after death, you're gonna assume that what you can grasp and hold right now is more important to you than anything else.

About the Jews, the Nazis and the Tutis: I have no doubt that some are Christians. But as I mentioned about Sodom and Gomorrah, its not like Christians dont die too. Paul in the bible was crucified, you can check wikipedia, its really interesting to see that all the disciples except John died horrible deaths.

Quite frankly, I am disgusted by your flagrant ignorance, and horrified by the fact that you're currently in med school.

 

[unsung truth]

We were given free will by a loving creator, I think it's because a life enslaved to some sort of programming is meaningless.

Our free will is both our greatest ally and our greatest enemy. We choose what we do, the poorest decisions have ended up in widespread suffering, and questioning whether or not our creator is a loving one. And we blame them.

But when we learn from our poor decisions and when we use our choice for good it ends up in love and happiness. And God is left thankless.

I think God is more loving than we give them credit for; being continually blamed for all that has gone wrong and being unappreciated for all of the good takes an inexplicable amount of love.

 

[hungrypossum]

Huh? What am I ignorant about?

 

[hungrypossum]

Oh, you know what you said about making a world where suffering didnt exist?

The garden of Eden was supposed to be a place where there was No evil. All Adam and Eve ever did was walk around, eat, sleep, have sex. That's all. And name the animals and beings.

But there was a Tree. God said, dont touch the fruit in that tree. Why did that tree have to be there? Because if it wasnt there, it wouldnt be free will. The disobedience to God meant that God was no longer the master of men, and so came a world where "the thorns grew on the ground"...

That is why the reunion with God for any man now is a happy one. Heck, you can call me whatever you want but I have said that I've been tripping joy since I accepted Jesus into my life. There is a reason why songs are written like Toby Mac's "You got me feeling so fly, a supernatural high" and "Heaven in the inside of me, peace and joy, God has set me free".

 

[Tigerlily]

Huh? What am I ignorant about?

Probably lots of things, but you're so yappy and jumping all over the place and I don't have time to read it all. Does it take this long for you to drive your point home irl?

Possums, Sea Monkeys and cute boyfriends. All truly fascinating stuff.

 

[wedekit]

*notgoingtoarguenotgoingtoarguenotgoingtoargue*

Purely out of curiosity.

Why do you want/need to believe in a God? What do you get out of it? It just seems like an unnecessary thing to me. "Tits on a bull" if you will.

Not arguing. Just curious.

I originally posted to put belief in God into context for you, not to sway you. To me there is so much more to Christianity than reading the Bible. You have to go and put all the writings into the context of their time and their writers (much like Greek Mythology and other religions). Just because the Bible said God killed everyone in Canaan doesn't mean it really happened. Maybe that's not the point of the story; that could just be Jews applying the revelation of God ultimately punishing the wicked to a visual story of it happening. If you were in that time you would feel more safe with a God that would punish your enemies during life than one who just threatened them with punishment after death. It is because of this that I scratched everything I had been taught and I read and researched it for myself. I found everything I believe in for myself; I didn't just expect someone to hand it to me and don't expect anyone to believe what I believe.

I believe people take the Bible much too literally, especially because it was written by people with a completely different set of mind. I believe the Bible is composed of revelations, but applied to scenarios in order to explain them. Anyone who believes in the actual existence of Adam and Eve deserves a swift kick to the balls, honestly. The existence of Adam and Eve was not the point of Genesis. It was to give insight into our human condition.

Anyways, I don't even feel comfortable answering your question because I know that your intention was to just take what I write and use it against me. I don't know why I'm doing this but I will answer the question under the assumption that you recognize that this is what I believe. I actually do respect what you believe up until you start criticizing the beliefs of others. I am always very hesitant to share my beliefs because they are very personal to me. Nothing harms me more than people taking what I believe and throwing it out the window when all I ask is to have my opinion heard, not taken for fact.

Answer: Because I find it hard to just fall back on science, which provides the only other explanation for existence.

Water is cold only because we sense it as cold. If we didn't have a senses, words like "temperature" wouldn't exist. Wouldn't it be arrogant to assume that our 5 senses experience all that there is to experience in this universe? Science can in no way reach all the domains of reality or tell me the ultimate meaning of our existence, but the existence of God can for me. Science's aim is based towards humane goals, but we don't even know what "human" means. I have no reason not to believe in God. I'm sure our definitions of God are very different though. I see God as defining freedom for us, not taking it away from us. I don't see believing in God as wasting my life in expectation of an afterlife. Those who believe in nothing in turn believe that their very existence means nothing, and so I don't really see why this is the better view. There! That is MY view on the matter since you asked, and not THE view on the matter.

It's proven that if man can't look to the future with hope he loses the will to live, as seen in Viktor Frankl's recollection of his experience in a Jewish concentration camp. Those who said and believed stuff like "We'll be liberated by New Years!" died soon after New Years came and they were not liberated. I'm looking to the future and I only can see one possibility and it's Him. I have hope and a gut feeling, and now I just need the proof for myself. For many this is not reason enough but for me it is. Maybe that's why INFJs have to hold so much of themselves back. Otherwise it's like cupping the flame of our beliefs from everyone else's hard blowing wind.

I don't ever try and force my beliefs on anyone and I take that into consideration when I vote. Hell, all my friends outside of college are atheist and I don't care. I understand their point of view and they understand mine, and we respect that. We don't run around criticizing people for their life choices, we respect them as people and move on with our own life. A lot of despair and loss comes from people all over the world failing to do this, not because God caused it.

P.S.
(Please don't mistaken me for a Christian like hungrypossum.)

 

[hungrypossum]

Thank you very much, I'm 21 years old, still a child in many ways, my grandma is 80 and never travelled out of Singapore thats why i dont talk to her about life in Australia for e.g. I personally believe everyone will always be ignorant of something or another and hence there is no need for humankind to blame one another of not knowing something

I would be very happy to learn if you would please explain to me What it was that I was ignorant cause if you think someone else is stupid, then it would be better to educate them so they annoy you less.

was very very excited to talk about my pet topic! and i keep coming up with new things to say.. such as this one:

A fridge gets spoilt. Should it A) ask another fridge for help? or B) turn to its manufacturer.

I have been through scenario A for 19 years, and I can say i love scenario B and I'll stand up for it any day any time

 

[Sandy]

Oh, you know what you said about making a world where suffering didnt exist?

The garden of Eden was supposed to be a place where there was No evil. All Adam and Eve ever did was walk around, eat, sleep, have sex. That's all. And name the animals and beings.

But there was a Tree. God said, dont touch the fruit in that tree. Why did that tree have to be there? Because if it wasnt there, it wouldnt be free will. The disobedience to God meant that God was no longer the master of men, and so came a world where "the thorns grew on the ground"...

That is why the reunion with God for any man now is a happy one. Heck, you can call me whatever you want but I have said that I've been tripping joy since I accepted Jesus into my life. There is a reason why songs are written like Toby Mac's "You got me feeling so fly, a supernatural high" and "Heaven in the inside of me, peace and joy, God has set me free".

Amen! We (my oldest son and I) are flying to California this weekend to visit my youngest son for his 21st birthday... I purchased 4-tickets to see TobyMac in Davis, CA on the 11th! (this is what my youngest wanted!) I'm so excited! (to see my son and TobyMac!) We love TobyMac!

 

[Tigerlily]

*notgoingtoarguenotgoingtoarguenotgoingtoargue*

Purely out of curiosity.

Why do you want/need to believe in a God? What do you get out of it? It just seems like an unnecessary thing to me. "Tits on a bull" if you will.

Not arguing. Just curious.

haha! So are tits on a bull ever necessary?

 

[hungrypossum]

yea but men have nipples! and the fact that they have them makes me want to know why they do! So i gotta talk to God till I find out why!

 

[miss fortune]

Thank you very much, I'm 21 years old, still a child in many ways, my grandma is 80 and never travelled out of Singapore thats why i dont talk to her about life in Australia for e.g. I personally believe everyone will always be ignorant of something or another and hence there is no need for humankind to blame one another of not knowing something

I would be very happy to learn if you would please explain to me What it was that I was ignorant cause if you think someone else is stupid, then it would be better to educate them so they annoy you less.

was very very excited to talk about my pet topic! and i keep coming up with new things to say.. such as this one:

A fridge gets spoilt. Should it A) ask another fridge for help? or B) turn to its manufacturer.

I have been through scenario A for 19 years, and I can say i love scenario B and I'll stand up for it any day any time

Not to sound argumentative, but I'd pick option C. Purchase from ANOTHER manufacturer the first one obviously didn't do a good enough job!

and sorry- but you seem SO much like an ESFP to me that it's not even funny!

 

[wedekit]

Not to sound argumentative, but I'd pick option C. Purchase from ANOTHER manufacturer the first one obviously didn't do a good enough job!

and sorry- but you seem SO much like an ESFP to me that it's not even funny!

I second you on that one.

 

[Tigerlily]

yea but men have nipples! and the fact that they have them makes me want to know why they do! So i gotta talk to God till I find out why!

You're in medical school right? If so then you should know the medical reason why men have titties. Why do people expect God to answer every silly little question they have? Don't you think that God would want you to at some point be a little self sufficient and use your noodle now and then?

 

[hungrypossum]

oh no no no no ^^ I'm ESTP trust me. I hate watching romance movies or anything commercialized, my fave. movies are "Battle Royale" and anything but Shunji Iwai that critiques society! I hurt people's feelings all the time. I hate hugging mum. I grit my teeth when my housemate talks to me about stuff which doesnt interest me. I try to pretend I'm busy so my housemate's mum does the cleaning. And I sigh when people tell me their problems.. the only reason I do it is cos God tells me to most of the time

 

[miss fortune]

and that makes you sound just like my ESFP sister- you totally don't sound like me!

 

[hungrypossum]

Well, that one was meant to be a joke!

Interestingly enough, it was a question in Reader's Digest and scientists have no idea why men have nipples! I know God is not gonna tell me stuff like that in this life but I'll wait

 

[hungrypossum]

interesting. but ESFP doesnt sound like me at all. is it cos I'm online?

 

[Tigerlily]

Well, that one was meant to be a joke!

Interestingly enough, it was a question in Reader's Digest and scientists have no idea why men have nipples! I know God is not gonna tell me stuff like that in this life but I'll wait

Well you are pleasantly entertaining, I'll give you that.