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Thread: Loving God?

  1. #261
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung truth View Post
    okay... but the laws of physics had to be created somehow, I mean I can't see arbitrary laws coming out of nothingness.

    And where did God come from is indeed a conundrum which i do not have the answer to
    Yes, but using Occam's Razor, we may deduce that it is more probable for one odd and currently inexplicable circumstance to occur (the creation of the universe), rather than that and another more illogical one (i.e. where god himself came from). Even so, the odds are weighted differently, taking into consideration the fact that though debated, there is much scientific theorizing on the existence of the universe.

    Perhaps it may be hard for you to see arbitrary laws coming out of nothingness, but wouldn't it be more nonsensical for arbitrary laws to come out of a supernatural being, who in turn, had to come from somewhere?
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  2. #262

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    how do you apply the laws of probability to something that is outside of our laws? As well as the laws of cause and effect.

    And sass I didn't mean that I can't picture it, i meant that it doesn't seem to have a logical source, so stop it with the pictures and the cynicism and maybe open up your own mind before openly critiquing others.
    INFJ, 2w1

    "I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers. " - Khalil Gibran

  3. #263
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung truth View Post
    how do you apply the laws of probability to something that is outside of our laws?
    To say it rather bluntly, that argument sucks. What if I go around saying that I have the ability to magically turn muffins into Republicans among other supernatural powers, and insist that people follow my supreme powers based off pure faith and nothing more, stating that my abilities are "outside of our laws?"

    My point is, saying that God's powers are outside of our laws, and thus cannot be explained by them. is just a quick way to end the argument in your favor without any true rationality.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  4. #264

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    That pic is REALLY cute how can you possibly be an ISTJ my Dads an ISTJ and he's so boring! All he does is sit in his armchair and mutter and complain about everything.

    This whole post is for Sassa, so everyone else can ignore it.

    If there is a god or multiple gods I would like him, her or them to speak to me and tell me which religion is correct or if people can just create their own spiritual path.
    NOT AGAIN! Im trying to make my posts shorter. I said before: Jesus can pull you out of a pit but he's not gonna pull you out of an armchair. The logic is: You arguing with me I'm arguing with you none of us getting anything really going cos we're still in front of the computer.

    You've only started asking questions about God 4 days ago and as far as I know, we're still online. The thing is, after Jesus left, he said he'll send his comforter, the Holy Spirit. In these new days and times, those who accept Jesus get the Holy Spirit, so they become the new temple and covenant of God. So yes, that's me too. Problem is, being humans, we defile it ever so often by doing our own things and ignoring the voice of God we can hear in our heads. Trust me, if we didn't sin, we'd be Jesus right now - able to do anything in this physical world and realm.

    However, there are many powerful men and women of God around who can pray for you and help you begin a relationship with God. This is because they are VERY close to God and are good friends with him - these are people who God uses for healings to happen, etc. Jaime didn't get healed sitting in his bedroom in front of his computer. Only when he got prayed for in church! And if you want to read what he wrote about it again, here's his myspace.

    MySpace.com - ...JiMeNEY...HEALED! - 21 - Male - Melbourne, Victoria - www.myspace.com/soi7der77

    Cos God is like: you want me? FINE. You come to me. Not me to you. Trust me you don't really want God to go boom and land on you. If you want that kind of touch from him, you have to voluntarily want to reach out during church. Men and women in the bible in the Old Testament died after touching angels. Those who tried to see God where he manifested his glory on earth (they walked up to God's altar and tried to look in,) died. Thank goodness, nowadays, people who reach out to him and really want a touch from him, just fall to the ground unconscious. FINE. But it probably wont happen with you sitting where you are right now.

    You want to know God right, since you're strangers. You've never been in a relationship with him. First you go look for someone who does know him and get them to pray for you. And not just anyone. A prayer intercessor in a good church, one that believes in the Holy Spirit. Now those people... *whistles* when they pray things really happen, they have so much faith.

    The pastors at Planetshakers pray and pray all the time even when they're talking, ironing, eating, doing erm...other stuff... they do it all the time! AND you can freaking feel it when you're standing next to them! They're like radiating light! I'd be like AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Its as if I can't hide the darkness in me standing next to them. Yet they'll just be like ^______^ How ya doing today sweetie. And I'll just be like (I'm so nervous near you you're just radiating light) mutter and go...fine... and ask them questions and stuff I have about the bible.

    Trust me, if they didn't, church wouldn't be the same. There wouldn't be the whole presence of God thing at all. Again, I'll mention that Planetshakers is a very famous church - there are at least 3000 of us actively in the church at the moment. Thats how strong God's presence manifests during services. So if you really want a touch from him the way I did, go to a church where he's moving ^^

  5. #265

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    it doesn't end the argument in my favor because the same can be said of the laws of physics, that you cant apply a cause/effect or probability to their creation.

    and once laws are established by something it doesn't seem that they can be turned back... you would fall into a paradox of the original power creating the laws versus a new power trying to alter them

    So your making republicans into muffins argument is just a way to end the argument in YOUR favor
    INFJ, 2w1

    "I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers. " - Khalil Gibran

  6. #266

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    i'm not lying! you can add me to msn and we can webcam ^_^ you will hear that i was given a very beautiful language. everyone's is different, and some people actually speak in actual human languages they've never learnt before ^^

  7. #267
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    i'm not lying! you can add me to msn and we can webcam ^_^ you will hear that i was given a very beautiful language. everyone's is different, and some people actually speak in actual human languages they've never learnt before ^^
    I never said that you were lying about speaking in tongues itself, but rather, possibly lying about receiving the "words" "from god." The other probable options to me seems to be either self-delusion and/or self-hypnosis (whether you are even aware of such yourself) or mental illness. Of course, you receiving the words directly from a god is certainly possible (I accept virtually anything as possible yet not necessarily at all probable), but is simply, in my opinion quite, quite improbable.

    And for goodness sake, do you have some uncontrollable tic that involves you interjecting circumflexes into your posts?
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  8. #268
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung truth View Post
    it doesn't end the argument in my favor because the same can be said of the laws of physics, that you cant apply a cause/effect or probability to their creation.
    I am willing to argue that the laws of physics may be explained through the big bang itself. The particular chaotic release of energy, as well as the combination, formation, re-combination, etc. of mass had occurred in such a way that our forces of nature happen to be in their current form merely because of the chaotic manner in which our particular universe came into being. Similarly, in other hypothetical universes, laws of physics are likely to be completely different, again, viz. chaos theory.

    And you never explained your reason as to why you believe god's creation to be more likely than an infinite set of universes in terms of both space and time.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

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  9. #269

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    Yea the bible says that people will think that you're crazy when you're speaking in tongues, so don't do it in public. We don't even do it at church unless we're praying privately in a corner.

    But speaking in tongues comes hand in hand with being baptized in the holy spirit. Some Christians say they never get it, YES YOU DO. You havent tried.

    In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit was only given to a select few people in every generation. Not like now, in the new days, where everyone who believes in Jesus and asks for it receives it.

    In Borat the movie (documentary, rather) the actor walked into a church and got baptized in the holy spirit, he started speaking in tongues too! To this date I'm not aware Sacha Baron Cohev believes in what he received ^^ He does not call himself a Christian. But God doesnt take away any gift he ever gives.

    When you're speaking in tongues, you're totally conscious, you're the one who controls your speaking. The ability comes in the fact that your tongue can move in a way that can form certain syllables.

    Er what does circumflex mean.

  10. #270
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    I will say with confidence, that we will never know how the world was created/how god came to existence. It is entirely impossible. There will always have to be something that caused the Big Bang/any other theory, and for the religous, there will always be the question of who/what created god.

    However, there are many powerful men and women of God around who can pray for you and help you begin a relationship with God. This is because they are VERY close to God and are good friends with him - these are people who God uses for healings to happen, etc. Jaime didn't get healed sitting in his bedroom in front of his computer. Only when he got prayed for in church! And if you want to read what he wrote about it again, here's his myspace.
    The problem is, for all those great "miracles", there are a lot of people who've been prayed for, and have prayed themselves, where nothing happened. Maybe god works in mysterious ways....or maybe some people just get lucky, and others aren't so. I vote for the s*** happens explanation.

    Problem is, being humans, we defile it ever so often by doing our own things and ignoring the voice of God we can hear in our heads. Trust me, if we didn't sin, we'd be Jesus right now - able to do anything in this physical world and realm.
    The only voice I hear in my head is the one telling me to do whatever the hell makes me happy, as long as it isn't hurting others.

    Here's a question for you. Why are some things considered moral, and some not? Not talking about rape, murder or other things that hurt other people, but things such as drug use, homosexuality, etc.
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