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Thread: Loving God?

  1. #131
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Ah yes... remember, these sorts of things become outmoded from time to time, and the cosmos changes to accomodate our latest theory...
    Yeah..in century one we see lightning..we think its Zeus throwing a spear, in century 20 we see the same thing...yet its just some occurence of nature now.

    Cosmos stay the same, yet the better we understand the world, the less likely we are to see it for what it is instead of anthropomorphizing it.
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  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Yeah..in century one we see lightning..we think its Zeus throwing a spear, in century 20 we see the same thing...yet its just some occurence of nature now.
    And yet... and yet understanding the physical phenomenon has no logical bearing on the metaphysical premise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    And yet... and yet understanding the physical phenomenon has no logical bearing on the metaphysical premise.

    The difference is now we rely more on our objective observations than on our biases. As for example, now we have the knowledge of the world and the technology to examine what lightning is. This is no excuse to allow ourselves to mythologize.

    Certainly does have logical bearing as now our metaphysical speculations have some grounding in what has been observed as factual information or reasoning.

    That is the difference between warranted metaphysical premises and unwarranted. The former are founded on empirical observations and sound reasoning, the latter are not.

    You may be confusing metaphysics for eschatology. Metaphysics is merely an inquiry into the realm beyond the physical. It does not have to have anything to do with the other world. Yet that, is the very definition of eschatology. Study of the afterlife and the other world. These questions ought to be dismissed as non-sensical because they are not at all connected to our observations and theories of this world. We simply cannot establish the premises for such an inquiry.
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  4. #134
    Oberon
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    Hmm. By analogy, it would appear that a full understanding of the Model T should cause one to doubt the existence of Henry Ford.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Hmm. By analogy, it would appear that a full understanding of the Model T should cause one to doubt the existence of Henry Ford.

    We cannot have any understanding of the other world because we have no experience with it, or anything even remotely connected to the other world.

    We can have partiaul understanding of Henry Ford's ideas because we have some experience with his work.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Hmm. By analogy, it would appear that a full understanding of the Model T should cause one to doubt the existence of Henry Ford.
    So the Pinkertons would have been his locusts or lightening bolts? Sorry, just struck by the comparison of Ford firing machine guns on his own workers with the fire and brimstone god of the old testament.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    We cannot have any understanding of the other world because we have no experience with it, or anything even remotely connected to the other world.
    Aha... I knew that if we kept at it, our disparate founding assumptions would crop up. This is one of them.

    There's really no need to go any further, under the circumstances.

    Good day to you, sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Aha... I knew that if we kept at it, our disparate founding assumptions would crop up. This is one of them.

    There's really no need to go any further, under the circumstances.

    Good day to you, sir.
    The difference between you and I seems to be that you expect the Holy Text to establish the premises for our eschatological inquiry, yet I do not. I have an argument for why the Holy Text fails to do so, yet you seem to be accepting that it does indeed provide such premises by default. Therefore you commit the informal logical fallacy of an appeal to authority.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The difference between you and I seems to be that you expect the Holy Text to establish the premises for our eschatological inquiry, yet I do not. I have an argument for why the Holy Text fails to do so, yet you seem to be accepting that it does indeed provide such premises by default. Therefore you commit the informal logical fallacy of an appeal to authority.
    Please don't think my faith is that unexamined, please. I'm willing to agree to disagree, and to do so without impugning your intelligence. We start with different assumptions. I suggest we let it go at that.

  10. #140

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    *rolls eyes* I was playing Resident Evil 4 last night and i didn't feel like replying. we can theorize all day till eternity, cos if God wanted you to come to him by FAITH there's no reason you should get concrete proof he's there. there are so many things he could have explained but who agrees with me we dont want the bible to get any thicker. So whoever's attracted to the message of love will come. So you can choose to believe whether or not someone DID teach the first men to hunt, kill, and protect them from the wild animals. He did give the first people some laws so they would grow up with some common sense on how to live life. Someone did teach one of the early Kings (King Solomon) science and how to run a dynasty.

    it's like.. you can't see the wind but you can feel its breeze. so you can rather never know why you're alive, or you can go uh. so um. maybe i should try the bible or something huh. hmm. doesnt sound plausible. doesnt sound factual.

    you know what, thats normal. Jesus had to perform miracles in the bible for people to believe he's God's son. It doesn't make sense that some churches are miracle-phobic.

    and then maybe, like me, after a lonnnng time, you go like: omg! @$%$ i dont believe this is happening to me, its real.

    it doesnt change the fact that people get healed by Jesus all the time (i know 2 people in real life), i see healings in church all the time, millions of people can speak in tongues, and there are people who DO see Jesus (rarely). Read "chasing the dragon" by Jackie Pullinger, she's a missionary who went to Hong Kong, lived there 40 years, and many many druggies in the walled city got converted, and came free from drugs after being baptized in the holy spirit. If you come to know God you will know he works very subtly, without much boom, bam or spotlights. Probably something like finding 12 pieces of bread after giving 7 to 5000 men.

    and for people who do see such things happen? I can tell you that Jaime, who was born without a sense of smell - when he got healed last year, of course he went and told all his friends and there was alot of excitement. but all his friends were very, naturally afraid and hesistant to believe. they kept trying to find a scientific way to prove why it happened. all i can say to them is, my dearrrrs, you have so many millions of cells in your body - that is already a miracle!
    Last edited by hungrypossum; 02-07-2008 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Grammar

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