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Thread: Loving God?

  1. #101
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I was making a general observation, not meaning it to be directed specially at you or I would have quoted you. I just hear this argument a lot that somehow following Buddhism or Hinduism or some other religion makes one more intellectual than being Christian and I think the idea has ground to stand on.
    ????

    Uh well... you did quote me but that's not the point, and I didn't take it personally.

    You're possibly right; Christianity might not be any less logical than any other popular religion. It's still got its issues, and we have to take that into account -- just because it's a common argument doesn't mean it's not true y'know?
    Last edited by Bellflower; 02-06-2008 at 09:22 AM. Reason: sorry...! Originally posted add'l info in the wrong post
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  2. #102
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Well, it probably depends on the belief in question.

    I think a religion that tries to anchor in many truths and tell you what the "right answer" to specific questions is very stultifying to one's intellectual development.

    Buddhism is more a set of general principles by which to live and a way to view the world, but I don't think it tries to tell people what to do in specific situations. It lets people apply the concepts themselves.

    Christianity has the POTENTIAL for that... but it also (due to the extensive amount of material in the Bible) can and is used to encourage people not to think and just to accept particular responses to many areas of life. Christians in fact spend much of their time arguing with each other about what the "right exact response" in a specific situation should have been and why their view is the right one. I suppose Islam could fit into that category as well...

    Some of the other faiths seem to offer a lens through which to view the world without trying to dictate SO much of an individual's behavior. Hinduism itself is a collection of many different beliefs, not just a standardized set.

    And faith systems that place more emphasis on the will/choice of the adherent will encourage more thinking hopefully (or else, negatively, result in more self-indulgence).


    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    [Nipples]Assembly line style production. Proof there is no personal God.
    I don't see it as "proof" but it is definitely one thing that tells me that some form of evolution was involved in the development of human beings whether God was involved or not. There seems to be many vestiges or inefficiencies in the human body that are suggestive of an evolutionary process rather than a "by design" one.

    (Another is the human eye, which flips images upside-down and has to 'right' them in the brain, and actually has the optic nerve wired in BACKWARDS, running into the eye not out of it....it makes no sense if it was designed by a perfect God. And there are a few species on different trees where the eye is wired "correctly"... suggesting parallel development and the differences happened according to chance.)

    Those inefficiencies are clues because they are very typical of an evolutionary process and not typical of a design one... unless the designer is more incompetent than the typical human engineer.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #103
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    ????

    Uh well... you did quote me but that's not the point, and I didn't take it personally.

    You're possibly right; Christianity might not be any less logical than any other popular religion. It's still got its issues, and we have to take that into account -- just because it's a common argument doesn't mean it's not true y'know?
    Christianity became a world religion because it got the foothold in Rome.
    The magistrate of Rome was in the hands of the Greek slaves.

    The Jews were governed by an intellectual elite. A tradition of long standing.
    The intellectuals made the peace with Rome.
    Rome accepted the diversity of faith.
    Only Octavian did not.
    In the Roman tradition, Octavian was the son of God.

    Jesus was mistaken as a political rebel.
    Because of his words:
    Give to Caesar what is to Caesar.. and to God what is to God.

    Did the followers give to Caesar what is to Caesar?
    And to God what is to God?

    What is the foundation of a dogma?

  4. #104
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Part1
    Yeah that makes sense. What matters is what we do with the faith, if you choose to have one, and any who afford more to the individual are more likely to allow for intellectualism. Obviously...

    This seems to be a frequented point; a crusade of your own?
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  5. #105
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Christianity became a world religion because it got the foothold in Rome.
    The magistrate of Rome was in the hands of the Greek slaves.

    The Jews were governed by an intellectual elite. A tradition of long standing.
    The intellectuals made the peace with Rome.
    Rome accepted the diversity of faith.
    Only Octavian did not.
    In the Roman tradition, Octavian was the son of God.

    Jesus was mistaken as a political rebel.
    Because of his words:
    Give to Caesar what is to Caesar.. and to God what is to God.

    Did the followers give to Caesar what is to Caesar?
    Well... they hung christ and they stabbed caesar, so... I guess execution is customary for proposed religious figures.
    And to God what is to God?

    What is the foundation of a dogma?
    Are you asking me?
    I've heard and considered that control is a good explanation for dogma. For others, religion, particularly god was used as a scapegoat, and a remedy.
    My thoughts are that it stems from arrogance -- whether god loves us or hates us, he's paying attention to us (according to any holy work I know of), watching us, making sure we don't fuck up. Why?
    I think people made it up. Makes them feel important. It's the same reason we're so convinced that we're going to be the end of the earth. Right now our big thing is global warming. Cultured humans especially are absolutely convinced that they're going to be the ones who destroy the planet. Doesn't that make us feel powerful?
    we fukin won boys

  6. #106
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post

    What is the foundation of a dogma?
    Pax Romana.

  7. #107
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    ...This seems to be a frequented point; a crusade of your own?
    Probably not a crusade (I don't usually try to initiate the conversation), but I've spent my entire life battling my way OUT of that stilted framework... so the problems with it are very real to me and all on the surface.

    I've had to think about it alot, it's one of my large "life issues."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #108
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Probably not a crusade (I don't usually try to initiate the conversation),
    Ha, true enough. Though, plenty of the arguments I engage in start from conversations I don't start either. I'm guessing this isn't always the case for you.

    but I've spent my entire life battling my way OUT of that stilted framework... so the problems with it are very real to me and all on the surface.

    I've had to think about it alot, it's one of my large "life issues."
    we fukin won boys

  9. #109
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    ????

    Uh well... you did quote me but that's not the point, and I didn't take it personally.

    You're possibly right; Christianity might not be any less logical than any other popular religion. It's still got its issues, and we have to take that into account -- just because it's a common argument doesn't mean it's not true y'know?
    Yes, I did quote you. Sorry. I should not post late at night.

    I think all the religions have problems....

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post

    I think all the religions have problems....
    people in general have problems, we can use various institutions and reasoning for good as well as bad. Unfortunately some people are ignorant and take religion at face value or they become manipulated by another's ideas.

    btw im Catholic, ive read up a bit on Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Zoroasterism, so no im not an 'ignorant' christian who accepts beliefs and doesn't want to think about them. I constantly challenge my own beliefs with other religions, other people's perspectives, science, history, everything.

    My belief on this topic:

    We are an extension of God (this is a combination of Buddhism and the major monotheistic religions of the west), We were created by God and so we are made of him, it is even said in the bible that man was created in God's image. So as to the question of whether or not we have a loving God: we do, because he endowed us with the free will to make our own happiness. God isn't some guy with a wispy beard sitting on a golden throne up in the clouds, He is the spirit within you!!! Don't rely on other sources for happiness; live your life in love and understanding and reveal the spirit of God which lies within you.
    INFJ, 2w1

    "I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers. " - Khalil Gibran

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