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Animals, Sex, and Morals

Savage Idealist

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I was recently wondering, is the act of bestiality morally justified if the animal that engages in intercourse with the human is willing to do so?

I mean, there are other species of animals that do participate in recreational intercourse with each other, so theoretically speaking if a bonobo chimpanzee and a human being wanted to engage in intercourse with each other, would this be moral? If the animal possess free will then is the act justifiable at all?
 
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FigerPuppet

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I believe you can draw a parallel between animals and children. So, would you have sex with a 13-year old if she wanted it? Would it be morally justifiable?
 

Aquarelle

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How on earth would you know the animal is willing?
 

erm

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As long a no suffering is being produced, sure. If happiness is produced, even better.

Generally, most of society hates and are disgusted by bestiality. So they suffer in negative emotions, and are likely very willing to inflict great suffering on anyone who practises it.

I believe you can draw a parallel between animals and children. So, would you have sex with a 13-year old if she wanted it? Would it be morally justifiable?

Even if that were a successful parallel, it is very institutionalised to torture and kill animals. It is not so with children. There are animal cruelty laws in some places, but imprisoning, hitting, assaulting and killing them without consent are legal and common place (billions of animals). Raping them does not seem far removed from that.

How on earth would you know the animal is willing?

Aside from the obvious ways to know if an animal is willing to do anything (e.g. nagging for a walk or food), there are quite a few species who actively try to engage in sex with humans.
 

Qlip

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Yuk. I don't feel like thinking about this. It might be worth mentioning, though, that there are disease related reasons not to do this. Like avoiding aiding and encouraging cross species diseases. This should bear some moral weight.
 

Beargryllz

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Yuk. I don't feel like thinking about this. It might be worth mentioning, though, that there are disease related reasons not to do this. Like avoiding aiding and encouraging cross species diseases. This should bear some moral weight.

Irrelevant. We have just as much of an obligation to fight against intraspecies disease transmission (and we do), yet for interspecies disease transmission we could just as easily find ways to decrease the risks to an acceptable level.
 

Beorn

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Animals behave almost entirely on instinct alone. They do not have the capabilities of humans to thoughtfully consider the ramifications of their decisions.
 

Qlip

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Irrelevant. We have just as much of an obligation to fight against intraspecies disease transmission (and we do), yet for interspecies disease transmission we could just as easily find ways to decrease the risks to an acceptable level.

I disagree that this should bear no weight. The situation itself reminds me of animal cruelty laws. It seem to me that they are less about reducing harm to animals and more to do with putting a stigma on those who would harm animals. Because, the types of people who do these sort of things for entertainment have qualities that affect our society negatively. I don't think it's about the animal, it's about the person.
 

Beorn

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Absolutely Q, That was going to be my next point.

This is about what it does to humans more than what it does to animals.
 

Totenkindly

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How on earth would you know the animal is willing?

"Stomp/Bleat/Snort once for Yes, twice for No, three for All Night Long."

Animals behave almost entirely on instinct alone. They do not have the capabilities of humans to thoughtfully consider the ramifications of their decisions.

What about the higher level primates/mammals and aquatic life? Are all animals entirely instinctive?

This is about what it does to humans more than what it does to animals.

Which of course leads to the next question I'm expecting someone to say: Aren't human beings animals as well? And if so, what distinguishes human animals from non-human animals in the relevant sense(s) here?
 

Qlip

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Which of course leads to the next question I'm expecting someone to say: Aren't human beings animals as well? And if so, what distinguishes human animals from non-human animals in the relevant sense(s) here?

I don't know if a qualitive distinction is necessary.. just the difference in species is enough. It's analogous to tribe. This means that we don't have argue to no end about the magic of human laughter, empathy, self-awareness, etc, etc.
 

KDude

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There are plenty of more men who need a handjob more than a donkey. There is no debate here.. It is a moral travesty of the highest level.
 

Beargryllz

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I disagree that this should bear no weight. The situation itself reminds me of animal cruelty laws. It seem to me that they are less about reducing harm to animals and more to do with putting a stigma on those who would harm animals. Because, the types of people who do these sort of things for entertainment have qualities that affect our society negatively. I don't think it's about the animal, it's about the person.

I'm glad that we're on the same page here, because I've only ever thought of the anti-bestiality sentiment as a kind of comfortable discrimination. Who on earth would defend such outcasts?
 

erm

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Erm, what about consent here?

Legally an animal can't consent. Ethically I think they can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf3p1mXHfqY

There's been a few pieces done on the lives of zoophiles. Weird, but I honestly don't see the harm. Based on the history of sexuality and politics, I'd guess people are just making up potential harms to justify their [insert negative feeling].
 

Beorn

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Legally an animal can't consent. Ethically I think they can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf3p1mXHfqY

There's been a few pieces done on the lives of zoophiles. Weird, but I honestly don't see the harm. Based on the history of sexuality and politics, I'd guess people are just making up potential harms to justify their [insert negative feeling].

I didn't watch the video.

It's not because people are making harms up, but it's rather due to higher emphasis on community rights and obligations than just individual rights.

Do you make any distinction between zoophiles and pedophiles?
 

erm

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Do you make any distinction between zoophiles and pedophiles?

Yes, a very large one, why?

If someone is going to have sex with a baby animal, that's a different story.

EDIT: Let me be clear, I think there are rare occasions when acts of paedophilia don't cause any harm. However, distinguishing between those and the ones that do cause harm being so difficult, plus harmful acts being the large majority, means it is far better to act universally and consistently with matters of paedophilia.

In the case of zoophilia, I think the harmful events are in the minority and it is much easier to distinguish when cruelty takes place from when it doesn't.

I haven't considered the harm caused to the human involved, and would be interested in hearing arguments or evidence for it...
 
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