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  1. #11
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Animals behave almost entirely on instinct alone. They do not have the capabilities of humans to thoughtfully consider the ramifications of their decisions.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #12
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Irrelevant. We have just as much of an obligation to fight against intraspecies disease transmission (and we do), yet for interspecies disease transmission we could just as easily find ways to decrease the risks to an acceptable level.
    I disagree that this should bear no weight. The situation itself reminds me of animal cruelty laws. It seem to me that they are less about reducing harm to animals and more to do with putting a stigma on those who would harm animals. Because, the types of people who do these sort of things for entertainment have qualities that affect our society negatively. I don't think it's about the animal, it's about the person.

  3. #13
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Absolutely Q, That was going to be my next point.

    This is about what it does to humans more than what it does to animals.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    How on earth would you know the animal is willing?
    "Stomp/Bleat/Snort once for Yes, twice for No, three for All Night Long."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Animals behave almost entirely on instinct alone. They do not have the capabilities of humans to thoughtfully consider the ramifications of their decisions.
    What about the higher level primates/mammals and aquatic life? Are all animals entirely instinctive?

    This is about what it does to humans more than what it does to animals.
    Which of course leads to the next question I'm expecting someone to say: Aren't human beings animals as well? And if so, what distinguishes human animals from non-human animals in the relevant sense(s) here?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which of course leads to the next question I'm expecting someone to say: Aren't human beings animals as well? And if so, what distinguishes human animals from non-human animals in the relevant sense(s) here?
    I don't know if a qualitive distinction is necessary.. just the difference in species is enough. It's analogous to tribe. This means that we don't have argue to no end about the magic of human laughter, empathy, self-awareness, etc, etc.

  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    There are plenty of more men who need a handjob more than a donkey. There is no debate here.. It is a moral travesty of the highest level.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    I disagree that this should bear no weight. The situation itself reminds me of animal cruelty laws. It seem to me that they are less about reducing harm to animals and more to do with putting a stigma on those who would harm animals. Because, the types of people who do these sort of things for entertainment have qualities that affect our society negatively. I don't think it's about the animal, it's about the person.
    I'm glad that we're on the same page here, because I've only ever thought of the anti-bestiality sentiment as a kind of comfortable discrimination. Who on earth would defend such outcasts?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Erm, what about consent here?
    Legally an animal can't consent. Ethically I think they can.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf3p1mXHfqY

    There's been a few pieces done on the lives of zoophiles. Weird, but I honestly don't see the harm. Based on the history of sexuality and politics, I'd guess people are just making up potential harms to justify their [insert negative feeling].

  9. #19
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Legally an animal can't consent. Ethically I think they can.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf3p1mXHfqY

    There's been a few pieces done on the lives of zoophiles. Weird, but I honestly don't see the harm. Based on the history of sexuality and politics, I'd guess people are just making up potential harms to justify their [insert negative feeling].
    I didn't watch the video.

    It's not because people are making harms up, but it's rather due to higher emphasis on community rights and obligations than just individual rights.

    Do you make any distinction between zoophiles and pedophiles?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Do you make any distinction between zoophiles and pedophiles?
    Yes, a very large one, why?

    If someone is going to have sex with a baby animal, that's a different story.

    EDIT: Let me be clear, I think there are rare occasions when acts of paedophilia don't cause any harm. However, distinguishing between those and the ones that do cause harm being so difficult, plus harmful acts being the large majority, means it is far better to act universally and consistently with matters of paedophilia.

    In the case of zoophilia, I think the harmful events are in the minority and it is much easier to distinguish when cruelty takes place from when it doesn't.

    I haven't considered the harm caused to the human involved, and would be interested in hearing arguments or evidence for it...

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