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  1. #81
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Those are collages, not holograms.

    It sounds more like you're talking about consciousness than the brain itself.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #82
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Yeah. But I still stated my opinion on the brain, that it was a router to me, not a computer. Of course, you could get nitpicky and say that a router can be a computer with a microprocessor... lol.

  3. #83

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    OK. So I played on "the brain is a digital computer side for a while"...and the best I could think of is that maybe someday we will be able to simulate/emulate human thinking. Still a possibility, but there are some obvious differences betwee the way a brain "computes" and the way a computer does.

    These may have been mentioned before, and most of it comes from my reading of On Intelligence.

    1) The brain is more like a memory than a CPU. Consider the following facts: Even the best human computers can't keep up with our CPUs in direct calculating. Even the most powerful processing systems do poorly at object recognition and acting based on this. It is not a simple matter of parallel processing vs. serial...i suppose that is a fairly complex story.

    2) Human memory is not like digital memory. It is lossy, naturally content-based, distributed, and heirarchichal. Digital memory is usually address based, and the heirarchy is designed for coherence and accuracy, not based on content. Content-addressable memory is much more expensive hardware than normal memory.

    3) Consiousness is still not understood. How does it emerge from our hierarchical distributed content based neural network w/ feedback(or wherever)?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #84
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Yeah. But I still stated my opinion on the brain, that it was a router to me, not a computer. Of course, you could get nitpicky and say that a router can be a computer with a microprocessor... lol.
    Yeah, and I could also say that because it's got four wheels, it's a car. It's a loose definition to be sure.

    What I'm trying to get at is I think you're basing your opinion - a belief really, but I'll try not to get nitpicky - on either no information, or bad information.

    Your way of thinking opens a floodgate for astrology to be recognized as a legitimate field of psychology.

    Psychology, while it is a great interest of mine, is by definition a mysterious empirical science; all findings in the science are noted as statistical generalities, while causes are mostly left out.

    We know things like selective awareness (pardon my misnomer - I don't feel like searching for the proper term. This will have to suffice) because we experience it, and we have anthropological explanations, but we don't know the actual physical chemistry responsible for this. Until we blend neurology with psychology we'll not know why we think the way we think, or feel what we feel, on a physical level.

    The notion that the brain is like a router, or a radio is probably induced by the illusion of consciousness. It really seems like there's some kind of transcendent awareness to us - this is where most people become confused and approach religion. It seems like for us to have consciousness, there must be something divine about it right?

    They don't realize that it is possible (and from what I've read, it's being confirmed, and is on its way to becoming a commonly accepted fact) for everything that we consciously know and touch and taste and see and feel and whatever to be the result of billions of microscopic daisy-chains, all working parallel to form a cohesive whole.

    I could be wrong though.
    Hint: Senses = antenna of the router.

    I don't mean to shatter your belief, I just think it deserves a bit more toiling over.
    we fukin won boys

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    As far as evidence goes, I have nothing empirical :P. I just took what I knew about the brain supposedly being holographic, and mixed it with the idea of "phasing". More info on that here:

    Phasing Resource
    I remember Frank from Astral Dynamics Forums. If I recall correctly, Phasing is just another term for projecting. I'm highly curious. Do you project, whether consciously or not? Before you ask, I do both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Yeah, and I could also say that because it's got four wheels, it's a car. It's a loose definition to be sure.

    What I'm trying to get at is I think you're basing your opinion - a belief really, but I'll try not to get nitpicky - on either no information, or bad information.
    If I were more confident about projecting consciously, I'd try to prove it to you. (edit: Information I have can be seen as subjective, okay, but I've proven it to others, such as a sceptic HS religion teacher who never looked the same at me again and a few family/friends. Without prior information beforehand. I've also had visions which were noted/written to others ("proof") and came true ("told you so!" ^^). I wish I were more articulate about it all or that there is more empirical data to prove such a thing but I'm a little lazy and I wager there'd be moot point unless I could be more knowledgable about something I've experienced so well.

    I will say by no means did I accept these things easily and I was much more fanciful about it as a child.

    If it were taken more seriously by the scientific community, maybe progress will occur. How long ago was it that science, itself, was so rejected by religious society at large before being allowed to expand and explore (and still is attacked on religious grounds; stem cell etc)? The bare roots of 'science' was once considered a natural philosophic pursuit anyway.

    I'd like to comment on the brain-router analogy. Studies are showing how frequent use of cell phones (and other technologies) are proving to effect the brain, causing brain tumors etc. I think it's widely known how long-term use of EMWs from TVs/computers/microwaves negatively effect the brain. You could say we unknowingly tune in to these frequencies.

  6. #86
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    I remember Frank from Astral Dynamics Forums. If I recall correctly, Phasing is just another term for projecting. I'm highly curious. Do you project, whether consciously or not? Before you ask, I do both.
    Well, to me, I've got three levels of existence laid out. You have Awareness, Energetic, and Physical. There are two ways to OBE, in my pov. You can do it on an energetic level, which is the classic way of doing it, or you can just go up to the higher level and change your focus and awareness. Either way, it's up to you. So to me, it's not just another term of projecting, it's just another method of achieving the same (or a similar) effect.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Well, to me, I've got three levels of existence laid out. You have Awareness, Energetic, and Physical. There are two ways to OBE, in my pov. You can do it on an energetic level, which is the classic way of doing it, or you can just go up to the higher level and change your focus and awareness. Either way, it's up to you. So to me, it's not just another term of projecting, it's just another method of achieving the same (or a similar) effect.
    So um, do you do it? O_O I take it as a yes lol

    I wish I bothered to learn more about phasing when I had the chance before on AD Forum. So I'm uncertain what you mean when you say energetic level vs just going up. If one projects, one can choose to go up or anyway/where they'd like. If you mean to say that phasing allows you to enter a different focus/focal point or awareness (I think I remember terms of Focus 5 Focus 9 etc), okie. But energy, we as energy or we manipulating our own energy, is still required to make the transition, right? O_O

    Gah, I meant phasing as another method not another term. Mind you, I haven't looked into discussion on OBE etc for a few years so I may not be as up to date as you are.

  8. #88
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    So um, do you do it? O_O I take it as a yes lol

    I wish I bothered to learn more about phasing when I had the chance before on AD Forum. So I'm uncertain what you mean when you say energetic level vs just going up. If one projects, one can choose to go up or anyway/where they'd like. If you mean to say that phasing allows you to enter a different focus/focal point or awareness (I think I remember terms of Focus 5 Focus 9 etc), okie. But energy, we as energy or we manipulating our own energy, is still required to make the transition, right? O_O

    Gah, I meant phasing as another method not another term. Mind you, I haven't looked into discussion on OBE etc for a few years so I may not be as up to date as you are.
    Haha. To be honest, I haven't actually OBEd willfully yet, period. My knowledge is based on some information I've gathered about the experiences of other people, and just some principles that I've worked out on my own.

    When I said "go up to a higher level" in my previous post, I made an implicit assertion that the level of "awareness" has more "power" to it than the energetic level. You can get more done on an awareness level than an energetic level. In order to move and manipulate energy, you have to use awareness. Awareness governs energy, and energy governs the physical matter and environment we see. For phasing, no energy is required to make the transition, because you are merely changing your point of view. Sorta like looking at an object from a different angle to get a different perception. To me, all reality is a whole, but you can get different snapshots of it by looking at it from different angles, forward, backward, etc. Ninety degrees, a hundred eighty degrees, so on. When you've phased to another focus level, you can actually go back and "pick up" your energy body later. Awareness is consciousness, being. It just is.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Haha. To be honest, I haven't actually OBEd willfully yet, period. My knowledge is based on some information I've gathered about the experiences of other people, and just some principles that I've worked out on my own.

    When I said "go up to a higher level" in my previous post, I made an implicit assertion that the level of "awareness" has more "power" to it than the energetic level. You can get more done on an awareness level than an energetic level. In order to move and manipulate energy, you have to use awareness. Awareness governs energy, and energy governs the physical matter and environment we see. For phasing, no energy is required to make the transition, because you are merely changing your point of view. Sorta like looking at an object from a different angle to get a different perception. To me, all reality is a whole, but you can get different snapshots of it by looking at it from different angles, forward, backward, etc. Ninety degrees, a hundred eighty degrees, so on. When you've phased to another focus level, you can actually go back and "pick up" your energy body later. Awareness is consciousness, being. It just is.
    O_O Ahhhh! I see what you mean that one's awareness with OBE will effect the power of it. I don't see how there's an enegertic level to control err? Energy just is, that. Awareness is consciousness, yes, but we as energetic beings can perceive that awareness. When I meant energy is required, it's not just in terms of exertion, it's just that we are a body of energy.

    It's the same with the physical body. When we are healthy, we allow ourselves to perform fully or better as we have ample supply of energy to keep us moving. Our cells collectively relegate for whatever system in peak performance. When we are sick, our energy depletes and we can't exert ourselves the same. Cells break down and disease occurs. So when I apply it to projecting, phasing too, and what I've experienced... is that if one's physical body is lacking the proper amount of energy (being healthy), it's much harder to control projection (can't speak of phasing, tho).

    Also, when one is ill or dying too, it's easier to project because we aren't as energetically rooted in our bodies as when we were functioning much healthier/younger. It's not recommended but I've known people who've tried to cause projections due to lethargy...

    If you know anything about Sleep Parlaysis, which by Robert Bruce, is considered a partial form of the energy body wanting to naturally project but somehow is hampered. By low energy, being unhealthy etc. Spontaneous projection occurs in the same fashion, just unexpectedly, but I'd assume someone is healthy if it isn't hard to control or it's hard to control when someone isn't healthy . I speak of all three from personal experience, in both positive and negative situations. When I was 13 until 19 (and to a certain degree now, I'm 21), I had heinous SP attacks and I was also ill at the time and was very lethargic (low energy). Mostly horrible, but sometimes nice. The SP coupled with my illness, though, beget a viscious cycle. I'd experience upwards of 20+ SP attacks a night/whenever I slept.. I also had Spontaneous projections but they always occured when I wasn't as lethargic or were scary if I was lethargic.

    So, if one has a health energy body/physical body, then phasing wouldn't require much effort, I'd assume. Phasing to me, not that I've looked it up yet, reminds me of one particular experience (the only one of its kind) where I projected spontaneously and I felt myself as though I were peeling out of my skin. It was the most clearest and easiest way I ever got out. And where I went....

    Another thing, which somewhat relates to the brain-router analogy again. I suffered an attack which resulted in a head injury when I was 15. My projections/SParalysis were never the same for years. As my physical skull was hurt, it worsened my ability to function both physically and on an projection-related scale. Now I find myself healed to a certain degree and I've reverted back to being able to do things I once was able to with control. My awareness didn't change my ability to project a certain way but my lack of energy/being hurt did. Until now

    Great luck in experiencing any of the above or all for yourself!

  10. #90
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    If I were more confident about projecting consciously, I'd try to prove it to you.
    Prove what to me?
    (edit: Information I have can be seen as subjective, okay, but I've proven it to others, such as a sceptic HS religion teacher who never looked the same at me again and a few family/friends. Without prior information beforehand. I've also had visions which were noted/written to others ("proof") and came true ("told you so!" ^^).
    I wish I were more articulate about it all or that there is more empirical data to prove such a thing but I'm a little lazy and I wager there'd be moot point unless I could be more knowledgable about something I've experienced so well.
    I wish you were more articulate too. Was the entire point of the above to tell me that you're not going to do something you say you could?

    I will say by no means did I accept these things easily and I was much more fanciful about it as a child.

    If it were taken more seriously by the scientific community, maybe progress will occur. How long ago was it that science, itself, was so rejected by religious society at large before being allowed to expand and explore (and still is attacked on religious grounds; stem cell etc)? The bare roots of 'science' was once considered a natural philosophic pursuit anyway.
    If you're trying to compare the rigidity of the scientific community to that of the religious, you can stop now. They both have entirely different reasons for discrediting information.

    I'd like to comment on the brain-router analogy. Studies are showing how frequent use of cell phones (and other technologies) are proving to effect the brain, causing brain tumors etc. I think it's widely known how long-term use of EMWs from TVs/computers/microwaves negatively effect the brain. You could say we unknowingly tune in to these frequencies.
    What?

    Please expound on all of this. I'm not sure what you 'know' is rooted very firmly.
    we fukin won boys

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