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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Living with or without rules?

    Do you consciously choose to live with or without rules? Do you consider transgressing rules or living without or in defiance of rules to be legit philosophical questions?

    I wondered about this watching a couple of movies this evening, The Dark Knight, in which the Joker wants to convince Batman that he has to transgress his rules and break them, even if he has only one (which I think was his unwillingness to kill) and, randomly, Dragon Ball Z: Evolution, in which no rules is considered/portrayed as a positive, self-belief appearing to trumph it. Pretty different takes I think you'll agree on the same idea.

  2. #2
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    I have 'guidelines' in my life. I don't like rules, but I also don't enjoy having control and structure over my life, which rules provide to an extent.

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    There must be rules.

    Without rules there is chaos. The reason for this is that there are an unfortunate lot of people who can't even make a distinction between "good" and "bad" or "right" and "wrong" unless someone else sets a particular social structure for them to follow. Nihilists, existentialists, criminals, and even asshats who refuse to control their dogs and discipline their children fall into this unfortunate category.

    I really hate that the U.S. is becoming more of an SP culture than an SJ culture. I find it embarrassing.

    Now you know.

    Despite the fact that I am apparently NFP, I have a rather J need of of order (and that's probably why I test INFJ on most Keirsey Temperament tests.)

  4. #4
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I don't have rules for myself - what would be the point, when I made them up myself? If I trusted my judgement initially to make rules, shouldn't I keep trusting it? Plus, how could I make hard rules without knowing the details of future situations I may be in? That would be an uninformed decision, horribly unwise.

    In society, of course there is the need for rules though - mostly to ensure that everyone is responsible for a basic standard of behaviour (like not going around raping and pillaging all the time) for the benefit of everyone else in society. Unfortunately, not everyone would follow these rules in the absence of societal guidelines/laws.
    -end of thread-

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    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I don't have rules for myself - what would be the point, when I made them up myself? If I trusted my judgement initially to make rules, shouldn't I keep trusting it? Plus, how could I make hard rules without knowing the details of future situations I may be in? That would be an uninformed decision, horribly unwise.

    In society, of course there is the need for rules though - mostly to ensure that everyone is responsible for a basic standard of behaviour (like not going around raping and pillaging all the time) for the benefit of everyone else in society. Unfortunately, not everyone would follow these rules in the absence of societal guidelines/laws.
    Same.
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I don't have rules for myself - what would be the point, when I made them up myself? If I trusted my judgement initially to make rules, shouldn't I keep trusting it? Plus, how could I make hard rules without knowing the details of future situations I may be in? That would be an uninformed decision, horribly unwise.

    In society, of course there is the need for rules though - mostly to ensure that everyone is responsible for a basic standard of behaviour (like not going around raping and pillaging all the time) for the benefit of everyone else in society. Unfortunately, not everyone would follow these rules in the absence of societal guidelines/laws.
    Nice post. I agree, in terms of my individual approach to things.

    I think the only place where I impose my rules on myself are with areas involving self-discipline... such as eating more than I should, etc. There, I try to establish the pattern ahead of time ("you can have two cookies today, altogether"), so that in the heat of the moment I have something to recall to help keep me on track and help me choose the best time to indulge. Otherwise sometimes I can be too flexible and always find a reason to "change the rule."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    If I didn't have rules for myself, the value of taking course of action A versus taking course of action B in any given situation, would be truly subjective and I'd be like driftwood....doing whatever pleased me without any notion of the implications of my actions for myself and others.

    So yes, I do have rules for myself. And I think any wise person should.

    "Do not kill" is a rule for example. One most could agree is an example of a good limitation.

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    ^^^ I have guidelines, tendencies, rules, they are all pretty plastic. There are things that I don't do and do that are within my nature, and I occasionally have to conciously work around them or overrun them. I suppose I have one rule I try not to break: try to do good things. Otherwise it seems to me that strong sets of situational rules are unrealistic in rl.

    Even concerning laws, which need be enforced consistently to maintain order,mercy and situational conditions should be always considered.

  9. #9
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    There must be rules.

    Without rules there is chaos. The reason for this is that there are an unfortunate lot of people who can't even make a distinction between "good" and "bad" or "right" and "wrong" unless someone else sets a particular social structure for them to follow. Nihilists, existentialists, criminals, and even asshats who refuse to control their dogs and discipline their children fall into this unfortunate category.

    I really hate that the U.S. is becoming more of an SP culture than an SJ culture. I find it embarrassing.

    Now you know.

    Despite the fact that I am apparently NFP, I have a rather J need of of order (and that's probably why I test INFJ on most Keirsey Temperament tests.)

    Wanting to have order doesn't make you a J. Everyone uses both J and P. Of course some order and rules is necessary. Otherwise there's anarchy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Nice post. I agree, in terms of my individual approach to things.

    I think the only place where I impose my rules on myself are with areas involving self-discipline... such as eating more than I should, etc. There, I try to establish the pattern ahead of time ("you can have two cookies today, altogether"), so that in the heat of the moment I have something to recall to help keep me on track and help me choose the best time to indulge. Otherwise sometimes I can be too flexible and always find a reason to "change the rule."
    I agree with this.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    ^^^ I have guidelines, tendencies, rules, they are all pretty plastic. There are things that I don't do and do that are within my nature, and I occasionally have to conciously work around them or overrun them. I suppose I have one rule I try not to break: try to do good things. Otherwise it seems to me that strong sets of situational rules are unrealistic in rl.

    Even concerning laws, which need be enforced consistently to maintain order,mercy and situational conditions should be always considered.
    Considered yes. A strong set of situational rules is usually unproductive (I don't like the term unrealistic. A person with enough will power can do a lot), but a strong set of more general rules is, in my opinion, paramount. And foresight is something worth training.

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