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  1. #21
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I was raised by pragmatical parents, who had an open ear for the mysterious, but staied always down-to-earth. They got passed on the tradition by my grandparents and so they continued to follow tradition but they never really took it serious. I am baptized, I am protestant and I had my confirmation at age 14. I've read the bible and I like many passages from it and I have learnt some things by rote, like Psalm 23.

    When I was very young, being a very naive child from the start, I believed in a God, similiar like I believed in Santa Clause till age 8 or so when I finally caught my Dad bringing the presents from the basement. When I was young I often prayed for God's help before hard exams, so I still think I owe him.

    I am looking at this from a split view, if you ask me as a scientist, I'll tell you, God doesnt exist. But if you ask me as a dreamer and believer, I'll say the very idea of religion is adoreable. As a realist I have to say: tho religion has probably brought many people a thing to live for in life, I too thing it will be the cause why this world will go to hell one day, therefore I have to say: no.

    I do not believe that the christian belief does fit my ideals. If I would really care about it, I'ld prolly look into the direction of buddhism, which I think does form the connection between the natural and the humane more closely and therefore has a more evolved scientific look on the World.

    As a very independant person, I am rejected by the sect character religious people have. But this is me, I dont even like to sit in a bus next to people, I rather stand. Bottom line: Yes, the disbelief was passed on, but in comparism to many german households, I am more traditionally rooted and at least am able to marry in church (what my gf is not, cause she aint even baptized).
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #22
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    If your parents were believers, and you are still a believer as an adult, what did your parents do that encouraged you to keep the faith?
    That's a hard one for me. My mom is a believer. She was raised in a strictly Christian home, but rebelled as a teenager and was in and out of church for most of my growing up years. I did not like it when she was in more of the partying scene. My grandma was a very devout Christian and she read my Bible story books and sang Christian songs to me and sometimes I went to church with her when mom wasn't going to church.

    When I was a high school freshman, mom put me in Christian school and I made Christian friends there and started going to a church with one of those friends. I liked it and sort of dragged the family there. At about that time I became serious about my faith and really did my best to do what I was taught, etc.

    As far as my mom and her faith (I was not raised around my father) I think if it had been only her I would have been completely pushed away from Christianity. I consider myself Pentecostal, but she is way, way out there and even the crazy Charismatic types cringe when they see her coming. She tries to coerce you into seeing things her way and she doesn't reason very well. She also isn't particularly ethical which undermines a lot of what she says.

    All that said, I am not currently going to church and I hold very different political beliefs from those in my area who share my faith and my Evangelical family members -- including my mother -- appear to consider me backslidden. It's just that first off, I don't like being in groups of people -- especially with time constraints. I don't like how stupid and thoughtless a lot of the songs are. I don't like how ignorant a lot of the speakers are -- I get bored and annoyed and just wish I could go home. Generally getting to know people turns out to be pretty awful because we have so little in common and (says the grumpy griper who cannot be pleased) they are judgmental.

    My husband (also a believer) and I have concluded that we just aren't the target demographic for the Evangelical churches around here. It's discouraging and we haven't decided what to do about it because we would like our children to have a better exposure to Christianity than they are currently getting.

    I mean, we did find a church that we liked, a pastor I've known since I was a teenager and the kids even liked hearing him speak, but first you have to get through the choruses -- annoying, but not the end of the world -- and half the time he turns out not to be the one preaching. Last time we were there he pulled a serious bait and switch with a sister church. He stayed for the whole song service before leaving us in the hands of a guy who thinks it cool to eat cicadas.

    You just want to dig your eyes out with a spork so you'll have an excuse to leave early. It really does not help my kids think more favorably of Christianity.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #23
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    You dont have to make that sentence bold to show non-beliefers they aint welcome to the party. Wait I am relating things on myself again
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Besides, if your religion is correct, and your kids are just, they'll believe it all on their own, won't they?
    No, not necessarily, there are lots of conclusions or thinking or habits which dont necessarily follow from experience or not innate in any full developed sense.

    This isnt restricted to religion at all, there are lots of things, attachment style, emotional and social competence, consequential thinking all develop over time and no one pops out of the womb already having mastered those things.

    Supposing that you should not provide any kind of guidance to developing children isnt something that surprises me, its chimes very well with the nuerotic cultural taboos on behaving authoritatively or judgement, however if you provide no guidance that does not mean that there will be no guidance, there will be, often its peer or cultural influences. So in an athiestic culture such as that of the western world the child will develop that way and elsewhere they could develop strongly theistic beliefs, much to the surprise perhaps of a well meaning and open minded parent whether theist or not.

  5. #25
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    My words, nothing better than a good militarian education of a little boy. I've already bought a suit for him he can wear from age 3 on. And if I get a girl, I'll pretend it did not happen
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #26
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    This is a good question because I believe that some of my siblings arent believers any longer, they kept up a pretence to avoid offending my parents and one of them doesnt care and has other much greater problems to contend with which have an impact on practicing any sort of faith.

    I think that my family where one of the few which wasnt abandoning its faith identity from early on, many of the people in my school where only nominally of the faith community we all where supposed to be part of, not even "weddings, births, funnerals" but openly suggesting that scriptures where a work of fiction.

    In many ways much of what my family traditions where, strongly traditionalist but mitigated or mediated with a sort of reflectiveness about change, time and good besides faith. So my identity and family relationships where all interwoven, for me, with my faith, I had a very, very strong sense of loyalty to my parents and family so non or anti or rival faiths wherent ever challenges to me, I either dismissed them or while remaining convival didnt accept their legitimacy.

    There was always, and still is, a sense for me in which my faith, politics and personality inclined towards the non-conformist and I found that conforming involved abandoning or betraying what I identified with as my own and family traditions.

    We wheren't evangelists but I had a lot to do with evangelists when I was in my teens, when I first interacted with protestants really, they where hostile to my faith, told me that it would result in my being damned to hell, some of them where pretty distraught about it because they where good friends and felt this was a terrible fate and that they where charged personally with trying to rescue me from it. When I did interact with them I learned more about my faith and it only reinforced my own, a lot of their views appeared to be misinformed, antiquated, based upon a stage in European history which, for better or worse, had been and gone.

  7. #27
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I was raised Jehovah's Witness, and still am.

    My parents raised 8 kids under those prinicples, but we were never forced in the sense that some people feel the religion puts on you.
    Like good parents, the religion doesn't give you rules, but principles to live by.
    My parents did the best they could to raise us according to the Bible, but they made mistakes- they are human. And my beliefs teach that as human beings- you do make mistakes. So I don't see them or my beliefs as hypocritical, instead I see both in a 'for best results' light.

  8. #28
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I'll pass...

  9. #29
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    But those people aren't necessarily Christians, or Christians in the way some other Christians would define it.

    So as far as "happy" goes, I'm more inclined to think it is the PERSON and not the faith bringing the happiness per se,
    1.) I was talking about religion, not Christianity. Or faith, if you prefer, but faith outside of religion is more difficult to maintain.

    2.) I was also talking about general tendencies and utilitarian consequences; on the individual level, its always about the person.

    Some people are happier without religion; such people will generally lose their childhood faith in any event. Other people are unhappy within a specific religious framework, which is different from being unhappy because of religion as a concept.

    As for greater happiness through delusion being undesirable...in a nihilistic universe (i.e. a universe lacking supernatural characteristics, hidden or otherwise) the entire concept of truth has no inherent value outside the subjective preferences of the individual. So why discount happiness through religion on that basis?

  10. #30
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile He that hath

    Any religion is like a very large shared poem, and the only thing necessary is the suspension of disbelief.

    Suspension of disbelief comes naturally to children so it is no surprise that almost all come to our religion at our mother's knee.

    And as there has never been a civilization not based on a religion, learning the shared poem of our civilization is necessary to survive and thrive.

    However as most of us are now living beyond the age of thirty, some of us are falling out of love with the shared poem of our youth.

    And so in developed countries some of us are falling into anomie and we are finding we are spiritually homeless.

    And like adolescents we suffer the angst of an existential crisis.

    However all we need to do is grow up into the spiritual riches of Western civilization.

    Some of course remain impoverished all our lives although the means to enrich ourselves and our families lies at hand.

    It is impoverishment in the face of plenty.

    And it is the impoverishment of popular conformist culture in the face of high culture.

    And the riches of high culture are there if we will only reach out.

    But spiritual impoverishment becomes a habit like TV, and has all the comfort of familiarity and the consolation of the herd.

    But high culture is unknown to many and to others is almost a dirty word.

    Popular culture consoles adolescents but poisons almost everything else it touches.

    And popular religion consoles as it impoverishes. But any religion, like any poem, contains riches, and we only have to look.

    And we only get out of a poem what we bring to it. For he that hath, shall be given.

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