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  1. #51
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    I disagree with this totally because keeping people too soft does them a disservice (can get them chopped up/killed/taken advantage of/or even in "safer" circumstances cause them to be more dependent people rather than relying on themselves). Also, I think allowing people to be too soft ironically DECREASES their empathy for other people's suffering. If you aren't informed of how hard life actually is, you might not even have the proper context to sympathize with people who have REAL PROBLEMS because you're so wrapped up in whiny petty shit.

    Trust me, Fs will still be always seem a tad naive, even with hardening up and life skills. LULZ.

  2. #52
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I do not not understand you, I just would never phrase it that way.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #53
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Naive people can be inadvertently quite hurtful. Maybe "ignorance" is the better word, but there is a type of correlation with "naivety". I've known perfectly nice, naive people who's interpretation of others suffering is way off and that can create more suffering. They project the ease of their own life into the context of someone who has had struggles and come out with horrible judgments.

    There are a lot of different ways to learn how to care about other people. Personal suffering can be used as a way to learn, but just spending time showing compassion can teach empathy. I'm too tired to go into it now, but it is a big misconception that kindness and empathy are in some way weak. Having something to give others implies that you have excess internal resources.

    I tend to see meanness as a sign of weakness. People don't seem to realize how much they reveal about themselves when they are mean to others. It is like displaying on a billboard all of their own fears.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #54
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    After some time has passed I'd like to re-visit this thread and make the point that sometimes what looks "mean" isn't even "mean" but it just perceived that way.

    Also sometimes I am meaner with people when I think they need to learn something and softness isn't going prompt them in any way.

    I think hardness is necessary in life, even if you aren't at your core a cruel or sadistic person. Sometimes you have to wake up and smell the coffee. In the long run a "mean" person could be doing you a favor - giving you a type of strength to face things that are truly awful in the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I disagree with this totally because keeping people too soft does them a disservice (can get them chopped up/killed/taken advantage of/or even in "safer" circumstances cause them to be more dependent people rather than relying on themselves). Also, I think allowing people to be too soft ironically DECREASES their empathy for other people's suffering. If you aren't informed of how hard life actually is, you might not even have the proper context to sympathize with people who have REAL PROBLEMS because you're so wrapped up in whiny petty shit.

    Trust me, Fs will still be always seem a tad naive, even with hardening up and life skills. LULZ.
    Protecting people from the harsh facts of life is certainly dangerous. People do need to learn to take the knocks life gives you and to understand the real value of kindness and decency etc.

    Unfortunately, too often this reasoning is used as an excuse for treating others like crap; as if they are somehow doing them a service, when they're really just being an asshole. Life is hard enough as it is, no one should intentionally make it any more difficult for another just because they can't be bothered being pleasant. If you're being cruel, at least fess up to it; don't attempt to justify it as some sort of 'secret kindness' and pretend its something other than what it really is.
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  5. #55
    Senior Member Sizzling Berry's Avatar
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    +1

    For me such a claim is very tricky. It's very easy to slip while "raising" people with meanness. If that theory was true without any disclaimers abusing children would be the best way to raise them.

    And why are people mean on purpose?

    As a payback for some perceived harm done to them by a person they are now mean to.

    Because they feel better when somebody feels low or lower than them. I have seen that a lot.
    Hot-hearted head

  6. #56
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Protecting people from the harsh facts of life is certainly dangerous. People do need to learn to take the knocks life gives you and to understand the real value of kindness and decency etc.

    Unfortunately, too often this reasoning is used as an excuse for treating others like crap; as if they are somehow doing them a service, when they're really just being an asshole. Life is hard enough as it is, no one should intentionally make it any more difficult for another just because they can't be bothered being pleasant. If you're being cruel, at least fess up to it; don't attempt to justify it as some sort of 'secret kindness' and pretend its something other than what it really is.
    It's funny, but I can think of people who do what you describe here who also strike me as rather naive - even though they are excessively harsh. Sometimes that sort of meanness is an oversimplification of the way the world works. I agree that life is hard enough without adding arbitrary difficulties.

    More than being harsh, mean, hardened, I think the best survival skills have to do with adaptability - being malleable. Perhaps the word "soft" implies an inability to bounce back, but "hard" sounds breakable enough to me. Flexibility is stronger. Bulldozing one's way through life is unnecessary and often harder than just finding a new path or better solution.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Protecting people from the harsh facts of life is certainly dangerous. People do need to learn to take the knocks life gives you and to understand the real value of kindness and decency etc.

    Unfortunately, too often this reasoning is used as an excuse for treating others like crap; as if they are somehow doing them a service, when they're really just being an asshole. Life is hard enough as it is, no one should intentionally make it any more difficult for another just because they can't be bothered being pleasant. If you're being cruel, at least fess up to it; don't attempt to justify it as some sort of 'secret kindness' and pretend its something other than what it really is.
    It depends. Sometimes people really are just being realistic, rational, or objective and that isn't "mean"...and in some cases people may even be snappy with someone because they're personally offended by how sheltered the adult they are speaking with is (notice I say adult, not child).

    There's a difference between being a straight-up sadist, and just being a more realistic or even cynical person. Also, some people get annoyed by whiners when what is happening isn't really a big deal. In that case the perception of the whiner is that the annoyed person is being "mean" when in truth they're fed up with what they see as childish or weak behavior.

    There's a big difference between abusing children, or being a person who intentionally delights in the pain of others, and what I'm speaking of. There are spiteful, wicked people who lack empathy or sympathy for their fellow humans...and then there are just people whose motives are different than what you may have considered.

    For example, I've noticed that sometimes when people live under a great deal of stress, are hungry, or homeless they might be "mean." Mentally ill people can be "mean." Sometimes the more compassionate thing to do is to step back and ask yourself what's really going on with that person instead of labeling them as "mean."

    Again, I'm in no way justifying sadism or the concept of children/teens bullying one another.

  8. #58
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Q: Why are people purposely mean?
    A: Because you accidentally, or even purposely asked for it.

    I'll have a more Nobel-worthy post later maybe, in this thread.

  9. #59
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    People tend to act like they see the world. Sometimes frankness is interpreted as meanness. On the other hand some people really are mean. Mean people see the world as a mean place. Either they are very competitive or they've been hurt bad enough to take it out on other people.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  10. #60
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It depends. Sometimes people really are just being realistic, rational, or objective and that isn't "mean"...and in some cases people may even be snappy with someone because they're personally offended by how sheltered the adult they are speaking with is (notice I say adult, not child).

    There's a difference between being a straight-up sadist, and just being a more realistic or even cynical person. Also, some people get annoyed by whiners when what is happening isn't really a big deal. In that case the perception of the whiner is that the annoyed person is being "mean" when in truth they're fed up with what they see as childish or weak behavior...
    This seems like the sort of topic where a lot of different statements are true depending on specific contexts. I get what you're saying - that all "meanness" is not equivalent, and that there are drastically different behaviors and motivations that can get lumped together with that term. I can see a way that flexibility can address both those that are more sensitive and those who are more blunt depending on their environment. I wonder though, from enough distance what the difference is between being fed up with someone who is "too sheltered" vs. "too mean". I've encountered people who make a lot of mistakes in both directions - they judge people as mean who aren't, and they judge people as sheltered who are not. Sometimes people are considered less credible if they are nice -like they couldn't possibly have faced anything difficult or they would be harsher. There does tend to be an advantage to giving people the benefit of the doubt and waiting for a while before concluding. Assuming someone is not intending to be mean can help the dynamic. I work with some people with mental illness, and some can have fits and lose control over the slightest problems, but not responding defensively can help disarm the situation. It tends to cut down on negative feedback loops.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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