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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    So I've seen you use this line like ten times before: but what kind of double blind experiment would you recommend?

    It seems to me there's no definitive way to prove type, so how would you set it up?

    As I understand it, there is only one kind of random double blind experiment that would meet scientific criteria.

    And these criteria are clearly set out in any book on Psychometrics.

  2. #32
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    Thumbs down Arguing is a form of abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    OK, I'm gunna break one of my cardinal rules, and actually try to engage you in rational discourse... please don't make me regret this...
    May I be brutally frank with you?

    I don't believe you wish to engage me in rational discourse. I believe you wish to engage me in an argument.

    And I have seen this happen so many, many times here. And it is obvious to me that they engage in arguments because they have nothing to say.

    At a deeper level, arguing is a form of neurosis.

    Arguing is not creative. Arguing does not create anything new. And it doesn't even persuade anyone of anything. It is purely neurotic.

    So to my mind arguing has nothing to say except express deep neurotic feelings.

    But worse, arguing is a form of abuse.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I enjoy the poetry of that neurosis.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    May I be brutally frank with you?

    I don't believe you wish to engage me in rational discourse. I believe you wish to engage me in an argument.

    And I have seen this happen so many, many times here. And it is obvious to me that they engage in arguments because they have nothing to say.

    At a deeper level, arguing is a form of neurosis.

    Arguing is not creative. Arguing does not create anything new. And it doesn't even persuade anyone of anything. It is purely neurotic.

    So to my mind arguing has nothing to say except express deep neurotic feelings.

    But worse, arguing is a form of abuse.
    You know Vic, rational discourse was and still is the life blood of the Enlightenment, which you have espoused ad nauseum here on the forum. You love metaphors, so I'll say this: Constructing a rational argument is constructing the Tower of Babel. Once you get to the top, you discover the truth. Wouldn't it be nice if we could construct it together, all the nations and people at once?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I dont know how to answer this, I've never had any paranormal or supernatural experiences, I've not ever experienced any revelations either.

    The most significant spiritual experiences I have had have perhaps been challenges or crisis of faith.

    I've never been troubled by an inability to believe in the unseen, inexplicable or mysterious. At least until the last two years of my life, I actually would attribute this to my age, anyone growing up now will experience a different cultural landscape populated by militant atheism, despair and bad religion.

    A lot of the cliched 'problem of evil' or 'why must suffering happen' dilemma's have never moved me, it's a little like people disbelieving gravity because they consider there's an essential injustice about it or wrongness about it.

    So the most profound experience for me lately is that of doubt, how to explain that, well, its like a bereavement I guess, the feeling of loss but I realise some people have struggled with spirituality more than me and I'm grateful for the ease that I've had most of the time.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    militant atheism, despair and bad religion
    The inextricable trinity of modern-day.

  7. #37
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I wrote a paper about my life changing moment. It dealt with faith. I was I'd say about three-fifths through a depressive state. I would brutally berate myself constantly. Then on facebook a notification came up from I-tunes offering a free song download. The song was Gary Go's- Wonderful. I knew something wanted me to know that I was appreciated and wished me to be alive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtLusKMvZ-M

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    You know Vic, rational discourse was and still is the life blood of the Enlightenment, which you have espoused ad nauseum here on the forum. You love metaphors, so I'll say this: Constructing a rational argument is constructing the Tower of Babel. Once you get to the top, you discover the truth. Wouldn't it be nice if we could construct it together, all the nations and people at once?
    Yes, the ideal argument is linear and sequential like a sentence, a paragraph, a chapter, a book and a library. In other words an argument speaks to us from the world of literacy.

    Whereas we now inhabit the electronic world where things are not linear and sequential but juxtaposed and disconnected.

    Things no longer flow like an argument but appear in their own separate space.

    Literate man created continuous, connected space while electronic man creates quantum space which is discontinuous and disconnected.

    For literate man, his central nervous system was on the inside, but for electronic man, his nervous system is on the outside and so feels every touch. And so now an argument is experienced as a blow.

    And so now an argument is simply a form of abuse.

    The Enlightenment arose from literacy while we are entering a post-literate, electronic world.

  9. #39
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    Smile The Medium is the Massage

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    You know Vic, rational discourse was and still is the life blood of the Enlightenment, which you have espoused ad nauseum here on the forum.
    The old conflict is between the Enlightenment and tribalism. So today this conflict is between the West and Islam.

    But our conflict is between the Enlightenment and electronic man.

    So we have two conflicts going on here, the old conflict between literacy and tribalism, and the new conflict between electric communication and literacy.

    And I draw your attention to the fact that we are communicating in an electric medium.

    Argument is now passé. The medium is the message. And the medium is the massage.

  10. #40
    Ginkgo
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