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  1. #31
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Puppies and Kittens

    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    Where do you think that starts, though? That's just a mere example of first signs of someone who could possibly be evil, maybe the ability to strike extreme propaganda and fear into the hearts of citizens in order to create such evil as the shoah was a first sign.
    Such evil doesn't emerge on the individual level. This is called reductionism. No, such near absolute evil emerges at the national level.

    To reduce the shoah to the killing of puppies and kittens is sentimentality in the face of near absolute evil.

    I can understand you don't want to face near absolute evil, who does? But to reduce it to sentimentality is an insult to all the victims.

    The rest of us set about doing something about near absolute evil and we formed the United Nations and adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    There is nothing sentimental in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and nothing about puppies and kittens.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    Where do you think that starts, though? That's just a mere example of first signs of someone who could possibly be evil, maybe the ability to strike extreme propaganda and fear into the hearts of citizens in order to create such evil as the shoah was a first sign.
    Victor's not evil!

  3. #33
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Victor is wrong. However, in order to avoid one of the discussions which he so strongly dislikes, I refrain from stating the reasons for my assertion.

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Such evil doesn't emerge on the individual level. This is called reductionism. No, such near absolute evil emerges at the national level.
    I wouldn't diminish the power of personal level in an individual life.

    We have individual evil, and we have institutionalized evil. M. Scott Peck described both in his book "People of the Lie" -- using anecdotes from his years as a psychiatrist as well as historical atrocities like My Lai. It's obvious that both impact each other but are different -- one of the large differences being the potential scope of destruction.

    But both involve strategies to avoid culpability (the "lie"... either to oneself or to others).
    Self-interest is prioritized to the detriment of others, and truth is distorted to avoid dealing with the reality of the self-interest.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Victor's not evil!
    When did I say he was evil?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I wouldn't diminish the power of personal level in an individual life.

    We have individual evil, and we have institutionalized evil. M. Scott Peck described both in his book "People of the Lie" -- using anecdotes from his years as a psychiatrist as well as historical atrocities like My Lai. It's obvious that both impact each other but are different -- one of the large differences being the potential scope of destruction.

    But both involve strategies to avoid culpability (the "lie"... either to oneself or to others).
    Self-interest is prioritized to the detriment of others, and truth is distorted to avoid dealing with the reality of the self-interest.
    Yes, I think almost all of us can recognise individual evil. In fact our criminal justice system is geared towards individual evil. But institutional evil seem strangely invisible.

    Genocide is our worst institutional evil. Yet the Turks still deny their genocide of the Armenians. And the Tutsi deny their genocide of the Hutu. And the Sudanese can't see genocide in front of them, even though their President has a warrant out for his arrest.

    Perhaps the next worst evil is war. And war has been valorised forever. And some have made military spending the Keynesian flywheel of their economy.

    The institutional abuse of children within catholicism remained hidden for centuries.

    And in most societies the institutional abuse of women was taken for granted.

    And in Islam today we see the institutionalisation of jihad and martyrdom.

    Why is this?

    It's because we conflate our institutions with our parents. We depend on our institutions for our survival and to criticise them is experienced as a threat to our common survival.

    And we can see that here, as principled criticism of MBTI is unwelcome; is never fully accepted; and the character of the dissenter is called into question. This is because members feel that if the criticism of MBTI is full accepted, it would mean the death of Central.

    Of course I know this is a false fear as Central is bigger than MBTI - thank heavens.

    But the fact remains that the institutions of genocide, war, the abuse of children and women, jihad and MBTI all depend on a shared social lie.

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