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  1. #21
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Both have become corrupted into sin (according to the Biblical definition of evil), by being taken well beyond their intended purposes and making them selfish ends in themselves. This generates much of the "difficulty" in "life".
    What is the intended purpose of, say, sex? Reproduction? That's indeed the thing "intended" (*) by our little genes... and they made sex pleasant in order to make us strive for it.

    (*) I used quotes because genes are not active, willful agents. The genes who, by chance, promoted sex proved to be the most succesful and got their reward in copies, thus making the lustful animals the most numerous.

    But then anticonception is evil, because the intended purpose of sex has been thwarted already! Still, anticonception has been a boon for lots of women; and children who only get made when they are wanted and can be cared for!

    What are these "purposes" of everything, other than consequences?

    Moreover, what's so wrong about striving for more than you have already? Should a doctor not strive for curing more illnesses? Should a scientist not strive for knowing more about electricity or engines? If we stop experimenting on human cells, maybe we will postpone the cure of cancer and aids for some decades... or forever... Where do you put the border between a healthy ambition and greed?
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  2. #22
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    That would just echo the original OP question.
    When these drives lead us to what we would call "truly evil", such as sex abuse and political/economic corruption, war, etc then you could say you've crossed the line, and cannot be excused by the mere presence of the drive.
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  3. #23
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    So it's the consequences that matter? If the consequences of your action hurt other people, you're being evil... Yes, there can be something in it...

    In the meanwhile I've thought about this.

    I'm an amateur writer and I want to get better at writing. There's nothing wrong with that. Nobody is harmed by my writing. There's even a (very small) chance my writing will be good enough to give a few other people a bit of a good time reading my book. I guess there's always something better to do (I could do volunteer work and actively help others instead of just doing no harm), so I'd call this neutral.

    Suppose now I enter a writing contest. Of course I try to win. So in essence, I'm actively trying to rob other contestants of their winning chance. Evil? Well, anybody who enters a contest knows there are others trying to win too. There's a conflict of interest (everybody wants to win), which is accepted by every participant. Neutral.

    Suppose now I know one of the members of the jury. I drop this member the hint that I'm the one participating under that nickname and I give a bottle of wine. That's where things turn evil, I guess. Cheating.

    Of course, cheating in a contest or a game is fairly mild, not on par with murder or rape. But is murder not essentially cheating? There's a game rule (a law) telling you not to kill. There's also a silent agreement between humans - we don't kill each other. Just like, if I play chess with you, I assume you won't displace the pieces when I'm away from the board, I assume nobody will kill me.

    I'm very strongly against cheating, even in a game without any consequences.
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  4. #24
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    All of the following are signatures of 'truly' evil people: knowingly committing immoral acts, or lacking integrity, honor, or dignity.

    Moral actions aren't done in regard for consequence, but in regard to their own moral value. Immoral actions aren't done in regard for consequence either. However, moral values are predetermined through consequential thinking.

    Simply put: The truly evil person acts immorally to be evil. He wills himself into that state of being and is duly responsible for it.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    An evil person does wrong things while knowing they are wrong. Which, IMO, constitutes mental illness. Although authorities on the subject disagree. For example, Jeffrey Daumer was considered sane because he understood the difference between right and wrong. But for my money, you go drilling holes in people's heads and keeping their parts in the freezer, you're crazy, period. And evil.

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down The Shoah

    Last century we came as close to absolute evil as it is possible to get, in the shoah.

    As a result we formed the United Nations and adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    And all nations, including my own, have accepted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights except the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Conference) comprising fifty-seven Islamic States.

    The OIC reject the Universal Declaration of Human Rights because they wish to continue to violate the rights of women and children and carry out a second shoah.

    This is truly evil.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    At least those islamic states do not commit a breach of contract when they violate human rights.

  8. #28
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    If you have killed puppies and kittens for your own amusement as a child, I believe that is a good determining factor of whether someone is evil or not.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    If you have killed puppies and kittens for your own amusement as a child, I believe that is a good determining factor of whether someone is evil or not.
    It can hardly be a predictor of the shoah.

    In fact it is absurd to think of a whole nation as puppy killers and kitten killers, whereas is took a whole industrial nation to prosecute the shoah.

  10. #30
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Where do you think that starts, though? That's just a mere example of first signs of someone who could possibly be evil, maybe the ability to strike extreme propaganda and fear into the hearts of citizens in order to create such evil as the shoah was a first sign.

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