User Tag List

First 3456 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 59

  1. #41
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Perhaps being "stripped" of untruths allows one to actually use their own imagination?
    I highly doubt that, because you are always in the process of being stripped of untruths. All you hold to be true is true until the very moment it is revealed to be untrue. It might be possible that you create a unicorn once you learn that they do not really exist, as a compensation for the loss, but that does not happen when you learn that demons do not exist, does it? I refuse to believe that there has to be a certain amount of truths in your mental hoard that longs for refilling when you lose one truth to the bitter realm of lies.

  2. #42
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I highly doubt that, because you are always in the process of being stripped of untruths. All you hold to be true is true until the very moment it is revealed to be untrue. It might be possible that you create a unicorn once you learn that they do not really exist, as a compensation for the loss, but that does not happen when you learn that demons do not exist, does it? I refuse to believe that there has to be a certain amount of truths in your mental hoard that longs for refilling when you lose one truth to the bitter realm of lies.
    Well, hmm, there are tiny truths and gigantic truths, perceptually at least.

    On a daily basis, I think that most of us deal with stripping away, or having our truths being stripped away on a near constant basis.

    The tinier the truth is the less shocking the aftermath is when it is "proven" to be untrue, however, in the circumstance that a truth of great magnitude, a truth which we have carried with us our entire cognizant lifetimes, that has been integral to making us who we are, has been stripped, well, then we are forced in what philosophers, psychologists and intellectuals would call a deep existential crisis.

    A mega-truth is something that we hold, presumably, invaluable it becomes not only deeply integrated into who we believe we are, i.e. our identities, but also how we perceive our surroundings, i.e. the universe, and how we justify our being, i.e. our existence.

    Sorry, lost my train of thought.

    I never carried any significant moral or intellectual "weight" regarding mythological/make-believe creatures, during the same time, I was just as enthralled by the existence of dinosaurs, hell, I was intrigued by most extant species, especially exotic ones.

    So, I found just as much pleasure, (still do), in *imagining* and exploring extinct and existing creatures, i.e. *real beings*, as I do mythological ones.

    If anything, I am one who finds more inspiration and delight from the what I believe to be a very true adage, "Fact is stranger than fiction"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Sorry, did I address any, if at all, of your points?

    :/
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #43
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Sorry, did I address any, if at all, of your points?
    Yes, you did. There:

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    The tinier the truth is the less shocking the aftermath is when it is "proven" to be untrue, however, in the circumstance that a truth of great magnitude, a truth which we have carried with us our entire cognizant lifetimes, that has been integral to making us who we are, has been stripped, well, then we are forced in what philosophers, psychologists and intellectuals would call a deep existential crisis.
    I would say that what you call a truth of great magnitude is more commonly called a paradigm. Once that has been invalidated, you are compelled to find a new one, because without it, you have no orientation in the world. Luckily, a paradigm is supposed to be invalidated only by a another one; so if you lose faith in one paradigm, you instantly gain faith in another. In this sense, your theory may be true. But that is not what we were originally talking about, is it?

  4. #44
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Is it true that we, as a species, as human beings are inherently cooperative or competitive by nature?

    As a child I loathed competition with others, I did, however, deeply enjoy competing with myself as well as engaging in "friendly competition", through competition we grow, stretch our capacities.

    I have always tilted in favor of human beings being *ultimately* cooperative via competition, as in, though we might kill each other, and act selfish, the ends, when they benefit mankind as a whole, justify the means.

    I digress, in fact this whole post is a digression, so I apologize in advance.

    There was one value that I held onto tightly my entire life, one belief, that being that Love, true love conquers all.

    That Love saves our miserable souls, that Love acts as the bridge to the existential chasms we're trapped and isolated in, that Love defeats one of human beings' strongest, and at many times, malignant force, that of being Selfish.

    At the age of 23, I remember, that last tendril of Hope died.

    That thing which I clung to so desperately, that thing that made both day to day, and historical deplorable realities bearable was suddenly gone.

    I was in my car, outside a bar, when this epiphany came to me, and I wrote in my journal.

    "Why am I not enough?"

    But, these are my own Truths, this is my own reality, and thus far, I have chosen to live, and hence have had to make great strides in constantly overcoming setbacks, those setbacks not necessarily being catalyzed by my paradigms being stripped but rather by their being circumstantially non-existent.

    I do not want to live a miserable life.

    And, though misery must be dealt with, if I continue to choose to live, I must endure the suffering of momentary and often momentous suffering in order to, perhaps ignorantly, one might say, find the beauty I once saw, knew and felt.

    My truth(s) have been raped and invalidated time and time again, but I am still here, and I still believe in them.

    If I don't believe in anything, then I would be consumed by apathy, a fate worse than death.

    Call me delusional, I don't care.

    One life to live, better make it worthwhile.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #45
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Also, Nicodemus, I still have virtually the same paradigms I had and held onto my entire cognizant life.

    I must concede that at some level, perhaps I was indoctrinated by others, but is one indoctrinated when they *choose* their teachers?

    For me, at least, truth comes intuitively, and it is fortified, for me, by both observation and feeling, i.e. having to see and feel it to believe it.

    I never felt lied to because if I deemed someone to be a liar, that which they say is ultimately a lie, and hence holds no validity in my court.

    I've been lied to a BUTTLOAD regarding what I alluded to previously as "tiny truths", and this just pisses me off, because I get upset that I actually trusted the liar to begin with, and even more so it gets me upset at myself for not being perceptive enough to catch it as it's happening, but other than that, all of my paradigms have been intrinsically arrived at, though I do not share/hold them alone, I came to believe them by myself.

    I dunno, just some thoughts.

    :/
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #46
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default


  7. #47
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Also, Nicodemus, I still have virtually the same paradigms I had and held onto my entire cognizant life.
    Pretty girl using big words

  8. #48
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3
    Socionics
    ENTJ
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What're you suggesting its a value judgement then rather than a cognitive skills set?
    I've no problem if you're suggesting that not all adults mature the same way, some dont mature, some are emotionally illiterate or cognitively limited, that's an individual thing and its difficult to generalise. That's a given. However, that adults use rationalisations or other ego tricks to escape consequential thinking or pangs of conscience but it doesnt mean they dont do it.
    By all means call bullshit, its not an opinion I'm expressing here, its sound evidence based psychological theory. Go read.
    You seem to be confusing Piaget’s Theory of Cognitive Development with Kolberg’s Moral Stages. Piaget’s theory, the one that I was referring to, is a cognitive skill set based around the ability to think abstractly. As for consequential thinking and other forms reasoning involving abstract thought, most adults simply do not use it in any frequency that is not negligible. Nor is there any reason to believe that they can as the contrary has been proven throughout multiple experiments and should be fairly observable within the real world. As alluded to in the previous post, up to 49% of pregnancies within the United States alone are unplanned and many other live through a poorly laid out financial track living paycheck to paycheck. It would be a betrayal of Occam’s razor to claim that the majority of adults are so smart that they force themselves to disregard consequential thought in order to repeatedly make stupid decisions.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  9. #49
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    You seem to be confusing Piaget’s Theory of Cognitive Development with Kolberg’s Moral Stages. Piaget’s theory, the one that I was referring to, is a cognitive skill set based around the ability to think abstractly. As for consequential thinking and other forms reasoning involving abstract thought, most adults simply do not use it in any frequency that is not negligible. Nor is there any reason to believe that they can as the contrary has been proven throughout multiple experiments and should be fairly observable within the real world. As alluded to in the previous post, up to 49% of pregnancies within the United States alone are unplanned and many other live through a poorly laid out financial track living paycheck to paycheck. It would be a betrayal of Occam’s razor to claim that the majority of adults are so smart that they force themselves to disregard consequential thought in order to repeatedly make stupid decisions.
    Smart vs. Stupid is intellect is it not? Intellect being distinct from cognition or morality, I'm not confusing the theories, I just dont see them a mutually exclusive or that one is correct and the other false.

  10. #50
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    I don't have kids and likely won't for a while (if ever), so right now I mostly operate on a 'don't be the first person to tell a child about the holocaust'-type basis.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

Similar Threads

  1. telling the truth
    By miss fortune in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 03-18-2012, 04:30 PM
  2. What causes people to tell the truth?
    By xisnotx in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-18-2011, 08:11 PM
  3. Is INFP man really done with me? Tell me the truth...
    By Serafina in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-19-2011, 03:30 PM
  4. I will never tell the truth
    By prplchknz in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 08-08-2010, 02:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO