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  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I do concur, yet I beg to differ: those are two very different forms of truths.
    Yes, you have caught the nub of it.

    However they are often confused.

    And they lend themselves to confusion because they are spelt the same, only one is capitalised.

    I suspect though that they are deliberately confused by powerful institutions in the interests of maintaining their power.

    Yet, you have caught the difference and frankly I think it is a fascinating difference.

    As I see it, the difference is between the literate and the spoken.

    The literate only see a flat surface and trances within trances within trances are invisible to them so they say they don't exist. And as a corollary, they say God doesn't exist.

    However the spoken word is comfortable with trances nestled inside one another. Their existence is obvious to the spoken word as is the existence of God.

    In the beginning was the spoken Word, and the spoken Word was with God, and the spoken Word was God.

    It's called transubstantiation. It is a moment of religious enchantment. And is brought about entirely by the spoken word.

    And naturally literate Protestants don't believe in transubstantiation. And why should they, they don't believe in the spoken word. And so the spoken word no longer enchants them.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I am, in fact, planning to write my bachelor thesis about that form of truth which you write with a capital T, and because of that, I will not disclose my interesting thoughts concerning this matter. But god does not play any role in my concept.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I am, in fact, planning to write my bachelor thesis about that form of truth which you write with a capital T, and because of that, I will not disclose my interesting thoughts concerning this matter. But god does not play any role in my concept.
    Naturally, you are writing your bachelor's thesis, you are not speaking it.

    You are highly literate just to get where you are. So naturally you don't believe in the spoken word anymore than you believe in God.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Correct.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Correct.
    Of course it is my job to convert you to the spoken word.

    I wish to enchant you with the spoken word.

    But to do this I must subvert the privilege you give to literacy and the eye.

    I propose a democratic revolution of the senses where the auditory, proprioceptive, olfactory and haptic senses take their equal place alongside the visual sense.

    Fortunately the electronic media we use to communicate is conspiring with me.

    You are, Nicodemus, the centre of global conspiracy.

    Already you have been inducted into the electric tribe of Typology Central in the global village.

    Already, Nicodemus, you are one of us.

  6. #16
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    God is the author of everything. And Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche informed us that God is dead, just as Roland Bathes informed us the author is dead.

    And so we are rediscovering God as the Goddess Gaia, and rediscovering the author as the writer.

    Just look around us. We are all writing. We are writing and responding to one another. And we are learning that the meaning of any communication is it's response. We are starting to listen to the vibrations (the vibs) rather than looking for logic. And we are starting to listen to the vibs resonating with one another. We are starting to listen to one another rather than look at one another. And we are starting to be touched by one another. Sometimes this can be startling. But we are only starting off so we need to learn haptic manners.
    I am looking around, and all I see is people moving some stuff around. That's all we do.

    What explanatory power would God (or any alternative) even have?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I am looking around, and all I see is people moving some stuff around. That's all we do.

    What explanatory power would God (or any alternative) even have?
    You want an explanation?

    Next you will be asking me to justify my existence just as you ask God to justify Her existence.

    And what if I can't justify my existence? Will I become a useless parasite?

    Will you then perhaps call the exterminator?

  8. #18
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    You want an explanation?

    Next you will be asking me to justify my existence just as you ask God to justify Her existence.

    And what if I can't justify my existence? Will I become a useless parasite?

    Will you then perhaps call the exterminator?
    No, I don't want an explanation. What I'm saying is that ANY explanation is unsatisfying.

    That's why I give up on the question and just move on with my life. I believe things that have explanatory power and ignore things that don't. (Or at least, I try to.)

  9. #19
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Central keeps us in touch with one another.

    We only have to reach out with our finger tips to be in touch.

    And there is no warning. It is not as though you journey to see me. No, you appear immediately. One moment we are not in touch and the next moment we are in touch.

    And when you touch me suddenly, it can be a shock. It is like a sudden loud noise and I am startled.

    But this is the nature of touch.
    If this is touch, it is figurative only. We are still communicating by writing. We do not hear the sound of each other's voices, see the expressions on our faces, smell the aromas of our perfumes, or share even as simple a touch as a handshake. But still, for all that, we share and communicate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But all we have learnt is visual manners. We are trained at school in visual manners. We are trained how to argue. We are trained how to be logical. We are trained how to set out an argument. We are trained to think linearly and sequentially, in the same manner a book is written.

    We are trained to a point of view. And we are trained to see that each individual has their unique point of view. And so we are trained in perspective. We are trained to see one another in perspective. We look into the distance and see the vanishing point.
    I'm not sure what you learn in Oz, but hereabouts logic, critical thinking, and true respect for diversity of opinion is in short supply in schools. Rule-following, cookbook-style activities, and superficial descriptions are more commonplace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The literate only see a flat surface and trances within trances within trances are invisible to them so they say they don't exist. And as a corollary, they say God doesn't exist.

    And naturally literate Protestants don't believe in transubstantiation. And why should they, they don't believe in the spoken word. And so the spoken word no longer enchants them.
    I am not a Protestant, but am often quite enchanted by the written word, perhaps in part because it leaves a bit more to my own imagination. Of course, the spoken word has its appeal as well. To each its purpose. We all learn and communicate differently. There was a period in my life where my entire belief in deity (and I have always been a believer) rested upon what I had read. That vital link tided me over until I found my way with more varied experiences.

  10. #20
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    God is the author of everything. And Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche informed us that God is dead, just as Roland Bathes informed us the author is dead.

    And so we are rediscovering God as the Goddess Gaia, and rediscovering the author as the writer.
    And that's the only way I'm able to believe in some god. As an amateur writer, I'm a goddess to the universes I'm creating and the characters I'm writing about. And I'm a very evil goddess. I've created a character in order that she should get ill, causing the hero to begin an adventure in search for a medicine, and she has to die because I want the hero to fail.
    If I cared more for my characters, the story would be more boring and less realistic. I try to create a world which is as godless as possible, with luck and ill luck, with strict laws of nature, with characters who mean well and do well, or who mean well and do evil, who are weak or strong, immoral or moral.
    None of my characters ever pray to me. Some of them are religious and pray to gods I've created for them. Some of them are religious and pray to gods I know don't exist in their world, because I created a religion but didn't create the gods. If I create a god for them, I take care he's not almighty, because stories are boring when there's a character who wins every time. If David didn't have an almighty God on his side, his victory on Goliath would be much more heroic!

    I don't know if there exists any story where the characters pray to their REAL creator and get prayers answered. There are stories, true, of answered prayers. It's quite easy as an author to make up a story in which your god of choice is the one who answers prayers. The most succesful gods in the story are the gods the author wants to promote.
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