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  1. #1
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Default War is Beautiful

    Only in war does a human being feed the instinctive desire to destroy the life around them. It is only directed at life; its nature depends on it.

    Then what makes it so grandiose in its beauty? When war ends, societies are destroyed. Those who fought in a war and survived it now have to live with what has been taken from them through its destruction. These people, tormented by the apex of human destruction and violence, desire peace much more than those who have never fought in a war. When the war ends, the greatest peace between the survivors can be achieved - human aggressions become a minimum.

    After a war, people then become less focused on aggression and by being motivated most by peace they desire to optimistically rebuild their society as best and peacefully and morally as possible. This is where the beauty is seen. People learn from the mistakes of their past and apply new ideas in the hopes that the mistakes that lead to the greatest horrors of human nature can be avoided; and they rebuild and re-engineer their societies with the inspiration that the same problems won't occur again - that all actions have meaning and as long as we learn from our mistakes, we will construct societies that create a greater and longer-lasting peace.

    But as time goes on, the memory of a war fades in human minds. As time goes on, aggressions start increasing. Soon enough aggressions become too great and at its apex we encounter war again. Thus the cycle repeats. And it's beautiful because in the wake of its destruction it leaves an intelligent imprint in time where humanity rebuilds things differently and better than before and tries to improve society. It is only in the absence of war do societies become most stagnate.

    But with this in mind, is it possible to create a society that can appreciate and understand the peace of minimum aggression, while still carrying the creative intelligence of destroying and rebuilding? Or do human beings naturally thrive on aggression and is war a necessary evil to temporarily abate our dark never satisfied aggressive desires that eventually overwhelm and aghast us to try and change our societies with inherently futile hopeful optimism? Or are we forever doomed to be simply like bacteria in a petri dish programmed to destroy parts of itself when the dish becomes full in an attempt to fruitlessly change and grow again to only fill the petri dish once again?

    *By saying that a war has ended, I mean that a transgressor has been defeated. If a country invades another, but plays the role of a transgressor, then that country will always be at war until it is defeated or the country invaded is completely dissolved or destroyed.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    Only in war does a human being feed the instinctive desire to destroy the life around them.
    Well now, that's no way to start a tldr thread. The first sentence gotta be indisputable, and that one just isn't.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    A post so grand that it could not fit into my 'war' thread.

  4. #4
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    War is for the sensors. Intuitives feel the pain of war without experiencing it.

    Your post is many a main theme in stories and movies alike. The 'viscious' cycle of war, bringing true peace. An understanding of peace that can only be attained through war. Without war, there would not be a desire for peace. And the fruits of peace could not be felt as strongly by those we eat the fruit daily opposed to those who have been starving of the fruit in many years.

    War is meaningless, because we are meaningless. We are meaningless, because the fruit is meaningless. And as the fruit is meaningless, paradise is meaningless.

    The only meaning we have, is the meaning we stamp on what we think we experience and feel in contrast to what others experience and feel. Born from the desire to belong and to be above average.

    Lock and load? Nah, let's have a drink before the war.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #5
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    War is not for this sensor.
    When I was watching the news before the start of the Iraq war, soldiers were shown, practicing in Kuwait. They were running with their bayonets and were attacking straw people. My mind translated those stabbed straw people into old ladies, children, babies, and other people. I saw the faces of my friends and relatives. I felt dizzy and weak and full of horror and I had to turn off the television. Also I was weeping copiously.
    I have a very low tolerance level for any kind of violence.
    Also I don't see the point of war. If it were to stop, I would be very happy. My digestive system, too, would be very happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    War is for the sensors. Intuitives feel the pain of war without experiencing it.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

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    Since when are murder, destruction, death, and chaos considered to be beautiful (if your not a psychopath)?

  7. #7
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    I have thought about this befor, on both sides.
    The counter side being that it is possible for humans to live in peaceful civilisations like the neolithic peoples supposedly did.
    However i realise that there is recent excavation & study concerning them that is unearthing evidence of more aggressive and violent tendencies as least in some areas.

    IMO throughout history there tends to be peaceful tribes/societies ...and countering them (often) are the warlike tribes/societies who attack and conquer. Of course there are variants.
    I also think that peaceful societies have more oportunity (in general and not specific) to make advancements as they do not waste resources or currency on warring. Thus they have more time and resources to study and learn.

    I could also argue the other side though.....
    Last edited by Betty Blue; 09-14-2010 at 03:18 PM. Reason: missed a t (not to be confused with Mr.T)
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    No, not really.

    I'll admit there is a stark and terrible beauty inherent in the form of the explosion of a hydrogen bomb or other such potent weapon of death. But there is nothing beautiful about killing.

  9. #9
    morose bourgeoisie
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    There is no instinctual desire to destroy life. An animal's primary goal is not the pleasure of the act of killling, although this may be a secondary motivation.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Well now, that's no way to start a tldr thread. The first sentence gotta be indisputable, and that one just isn't.
    Well, war is the collective desire of more than one person to destroy other life. There are various degrees of war in various scopes, and you can nitpick, but I'm focusing on the most destructive one, and attempting to correlate it with aggression, which I believe will still explain your nitpicking. So instead of attempting to clarify and focus on what I have talked about you have added nothing to the discussion, where I was willing to spill out my private thoughts, and that makes you a genuine troll. There, I recognized and gave you attention; are you pleased now? And I think you might like INTP central more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Brain View Post
    Since when are murder, destruction, death, and chaos considered to be beautiful (if your not a psychopath)?
    It's not, it's what it produces that I think is beauty. Destruction of life is one way to change the present to lead to later creative beauty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    A post so grand that it could not fit into my 'war' thread.
    Yes, I thought about it, but I wasn't interested in posting in a thread that had the preoccupation with 'telling you something interesting about war' rather than having the whole focus on what I have talked about. Here's the mic, you can have your spotlight back since it means so much to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    There is no instinctual desire to destroy life. An animal's primary goal is not the pleasure of the act of killling, although this may be a secondary motivation.
    I agree that the primary goal is not the pleasure of the act of killing. But I disagree that we do not have an instinctual desire to destroy life or there would not be wars or violence. I wanted to share a questionable, and yet therefore malleable interpretation for why war could be a good thing and why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    No, not really.

    I'll admit there is a stark and terrible beauty inherent in the form of the explosion of a hydrogen bomb or other such potent weapon of death. But there is nothing beautiful about killing.
    Well, you're right. But I'm more referring to how it changes things when it is over. I think its creative element is important to understand if anyone is to understand what underlying purpose there might be to having huge masses of people desiring to destroy one another. It's amazing, isn't it? To think that all those wars where people are attempting to gain something, whether it be power, alleviate poverty and despair, sovereignty, religion, morality, etc. It's all very interesting how in the aftermath of a war people can form a new government that gives more freedoms and wealth to the people governed. They can rebuild new more-advanced cities and by looking at what happened in the past re-evaluate what their ethical system and codes should be (justice system and economic system). Despite the fact that many people think war might be pointless, we are always learning something and trying something new that wouldn't come about the same way without war. It's incredible, but of course can also be a hinderer on society, but in the grand scope of things, I believe humanity has advanced and learned quite a bit more than it loses through war. In this way, with war we seem more able to decide when something isn't working well and destroy it to make something anew that will be better, or at least attempt to solve the problems that plagued the past.

    Anyway, I find this discussion really interesting and appreciate everyone's thoughts. Maybe I can add something later after seeing what everyone thinks and hopefully getting a better clarity from it.

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