User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 24

  1. #11
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    An omniscient and good God does not have the freedom to do evil. However such a God still has freedom in other choices. (For example, "Will I make the sky blue or green?")
    So he can only have a say on the things that don't matter anyways?

    EDIT: And then goodness as a principle would be the real god, since it is above god.

  2. #12
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    So he can only have a say on the things that don't matter anyways?
    That's a matter of opinion. I think that a lot of choices matter than don't involve good and evil. (At least they matter to me.)

    EDIT: And then goodness as a principle would be the real god, since it is above god.
    I don't quite follow you. Wouldn't this mean that God embodies goodness? The way I see it there is more to God than good and evil, so even if God must be good, that doesn't make the principle of goodness above God.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  3. #13
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Umm... something like, god depends on good, but good is what is constant and doesn't depend on god. Good is the foundation that god must build on. Unless god can influence what is good. I guess I meant to ask, does god have power over what is good?

  4. #14
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I guess nolla's trying to argue that if God is good, he has no freedom to be evil.
    unwilling=/=unable.

    ...

  5. #15
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Umm... something like, god depends on good, but good is what is constant and doesn't depend on god. Good is the foundation that god must build on. Unless god can influence what is good. I guess I meant to ask, does god have power over what is good?

  6. #16
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    unwilling=/=unable.
    Isn't that in practice the same thing? The world is now the most perfect of all the possibilities if god is being as good as he can be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    If god can just decide what is good, then it doesn't matter at all what he does since everything he does will be good in any case. "This is good because I did it" Which would also mean that the world is perfect.

    I don't know, maybe I am not making sense. Is there any way that the world can be imperfect if god is good?

  7. #17
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Isn't that in practice the same thing? The world is now the most perfect of all the possibilities if god is being as good as he can be.
    No. They are not the same thing. For instance, my dog is unable to fly, but he is quite willing. He is also unwilling to drink out of my unflushed toilet, but quite able.

    If God was perfect, then he would have the capacity to create imperfection. Furthermore, God=/=God's creations.

  8. #18
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,488

    Default

    I'm not going to say my personal views on the matter, because I'm not too clear on them myself. I think the way many Christian theologans explain it is that Good is that which brings you closer to God and Bad is that which makes you distant from God. In either case the existance of evil is humankind's fault by choice of apple, not by design of God.

  9. #19
    Senor Membrane
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    If God was perfect, then he would have the capacity to create imperfection. Furthermore, God=/=God's creations.
    So god created an imperfect world? I wonder what is the point in that if he loves good...

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    In either case the existance of evil is humankind's fault by choice of apple, not by design of God.
    He knew that was gonna happen. It was his fault to create the scenario.

  10. #20
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    This was not made by me.

    W(x, y) = y is willing to prevent x
    A(x, y) = y is able to prevent x
    E(x) = x is evil, T(x) = x exists
    M(x) = x is malevolent
    I(x) = x is impotent

    A: If god is not able to prevent evil, then god is impotent.
    ¬A(god,evil) -> I(god)

    B: If god is unwilling to prevent evil, then god is malevolent.
    ¬W(god,evil) -> M(god)

    C: If evil exists, god is unwilling to prevent evil or god is unable to prevent evil.
    T(evil) -> (¬A(god,evil) v ¬W(god,evil))

    D: If god exists, he is not malevolent and he is not impotent
    T(god) -> (¬M(god) & ¬I(god))

    1. God exists: T(god)
    2. Evil exists: T(evil)
    3. By 1 and D, god is not malevolent and he is not impotent: ¬M(god) & ¬I(god)
    4. By 2 and C, god is unwilling to prevent evil or god is unable to prevent evil: ¬A(god,evil) v ¬W(god,evil)
    5. By 4 and A and B, god is malevolent or god is impotent: I(god) v M(god)
    6. 3 and 5 are a contradiction.

    By 6, either 3 is false or 5 is false.
    If 3 is false, then 1 is false, then god does not exist:
    ¬3 -> ¬1 -> ¬T(god)
    If 5 is false, then 4 is false:
    ¬5 -> ¬4
    If 4 is false, then 2 is false, then evil does not exist:
    ¬4 -> ¬2 -> ¬T(evil)
    Therefore, either evil does not exist or god does not exist. We cannot conclude that god does not exist unless we presume that if god exists, evil exists:
    T(god) -> T(evil)
    The contrapositive would then be:
    ¬T(evil) -> ¬T(god)
    and thus god would not exist. If this is not the case, then this proof is not possible because if evil does not exist, then god does not need to prevent it. That is, false implies true OR false in C.

Similar Threads

  1. Is excersize the solution to all of my problems?
    By The Wailing Specter in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 03-14-2015, 12:28 PM
  2. Problem of Religious bigotry
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-26-2013, 03:57 PM
  3. Descartes and the Problem of Evil
    By Into It in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-07-2010, 08:19 AM
  4. hello, all...this is another INFP in the corner of his world
    By niki in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-18-2007, 06:32 AM
  5. Problem of Problematicality
    By reason in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-23-2007, 05:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO