User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 38

  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    If your loved ones, no matter who they may be, were destined for Hell for some reason... would you rather go with them and spend endless days in pain and torture, or would you spend an eternity without them?

    I'd rather suffer forever with them. My family means the world to me.
    I see Hell as essentially the same as death. So while I'd mourn their loss, I'd still choose to live on in Heaven. (Not much different from my views on death in this life really.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Most Christians view hell as separation from God, the inferno thing came out of a novel, didn't it?
    I've come to the conclusion that most Christians don't have a similar viewpoint on hardly anything. That includes their views on the afterlife.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    There are verses that indicate to me that Hell may be a place of torment (it's called 'the lake of fire' in one place, for example). I'm not exactly sure how it all works, but I believe that God is just and merciful and that only people who choose not to be with him will go away from him. I don't believe, if there is a literal hell, that one person would be any help to another or likely aware of the presence of loved ones, so my being there would be pointless.

    I have put my faith in the mercy and justice of God, so I cannot simultaneously distrust him with the welfare of my loved ones. Nor would I invalidate their free will if they choose a different path than I have chosen.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #13
    figsfiggyfigs
    Guest

    Default

    In Islam, from what I've heard, or remember; Apparently in heaven , you do not know your family. You're only a family on earth, after that, you're a happy person on your own.

    I'd chose heaven, merely because I know my parents would do the same.

    If I can switch places, I'd probably do that instead, and let them go to heaven in my place.

    Lets work on the getting a " ticket for heaven" part first :p

  4. #14
    All Natural! All Good!
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    886

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    If your loved ones, no matter who they may be, were destined for Hell for some reason... would you rather go with them and spend endless days in pain and torture, or would you spend an eternity without them?

    I'd rather suffer forever with them. My family means the world to me.
    What if you didn't actually remember your family while in heaven?
    If god is omnipotent and all that jazz how hard would it be for him to just selectively blank your memory of ever having loved ones at all? Then you would not miss them. To me it would seem that this would be a prerequisite to paradise.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    It's the complex convolution of stuff like this that makes me think our conception of the afterlife is completely and utterly wrong.

    It's got to be more organic, natural, and sensible than this hodgepodge of excruciating damnation vs eternal bliss.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Mine
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Most Christians view hell as separation from God, the inferno thing came out of a novel, didn't it?
    It sounds like you might mean Dante's Divine Comedy (not exactly a novel, but never mind). I do suggest you actually read it though if you're interested, you probably won't get it otherwise, and the explanation would take far more time and energy than it's worth me expending here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's the complex convolution of stuff like this that makes me think our conception of the afterlife is completely and utterly wrong.

    It's got to be more organic, natural, and sensible than this hodgepodge of excruciating damnation vs eternal bliss.
    "Got to be"? It sounds like you may know something I don't about the true nature of existence, please share your insights further!
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  7. #17
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's got to be more organic, natural, and sensible than this hodgepodge of excruciating damnation vs eternal bliss.
    When your brain is depraved of oxygen for too long, you fitfully fade away, then you disappear forever. Is that not organic, natural, even beautiful?

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    "Got to be"? It sounds like you may know something I don't about the true nature of existence, please share your insights further!
    Let me rephrase: For it to have relevance to actual life, it's "got to be." Otherwise it's just conjecture and I no longer have use for it.

    For a counterpoint, maybe we're all floating on the back of a giant turtle who is dancing on a puff of pink and purple cotton candy. Maybe that's true... but if it is, then who gives a flying fig?

    I suppose if there is deity it could be capricious and capable of imposing a lot of stupid shit on people just to cause undue hardship and pain... but that's not the sort of deity I see worth believing in and if that leads me into the pit for eternity, so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    When your brain is depraved of oxygen for too long, you fitfully fade away, then you disappear forever. Is that not organic, natural, even beautiful?
    That's one possibility. I'm a Christian agnostic/existentialist, and I see beauty in endings. Life doesn't have to last forever to be precious; and in fact perhaps endings make life even more precious. The choices we make as human beings are even more amazing and reflective of goodness if there is no guaranteed reward for making them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Mine
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Let me rephrase: For it to have relevance to actual life, it's "got to be." Otherwise it's just conjecture and I no longer have use for it.

    For a counterpoint, maybe we're all floating on the back of a giant turtle who is dancing on a puff of pink and purple cotton candy. Maybe that's true... but if it is, then who gives a flying fig?

    I suppose if there is deity it could be capricious and capable of imposing a lot of stupid shit on people just to cause undue hardship and pain... but that's not the sort of deity I see worth believing in and if that leads me into the pit for eternity, so be it.
    Don't you think there's quite a big conjencture at the heart of your view that this life we can at present percieve is the "actual" one? Those with a belief in the immaterial or the eternity of the human soul (and this isn't limited to the Christian faith) may in fact view our presence in this material world as a transitory state, and whatever takes place outside it, freed from the constraints of material existence, as the "true life".

    Anyway, there's something interesting that strikes me about your view of a potential deity, which is that you seek to impose your own terms of reference and values upon her/him/it and think that the deity needs to be amenable to your definition of what it "should" be about to be worthy of your belief. It makes you seem very distant, speculative, essentially unconvinced and quite skeptical.

    This puts you in a very different position from one who has a deep-rooted faith, because even the process of questioning it would in this case mean more that they sought to understand the true meaning behind the apparently contradictory information they had about that deity - to try to discern the will and purpose of God and make them more comprehensible. It's essentially a completely opposite philosophy, which brings me to my next point:

    That's one possibility. I'm a Christian agnostic/existentialist, and I see beauty in endings. Life doesn't have to last forever to be precious; and in fact perhaps endings make life even more precious. The choices we make as human beings are even more amazing and reflective of goodness if there is no guaranteed reward for making them.
    In view of what you've said here, and a lot of other stuff I've seen you say elsewhere, I'm a little unsure why you bother holding on to the "Christian" part of your identity. You might be culturally and by background a Christian (perhaps this is why you hold on to it) but your own beliefs seem pretty much wholly agnostic at this stage. You haven't exactly rejected faith outright, but appear largely dismissive of its relevance to how you live now.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Don't you think there's quite a big conjencture at the heart of your view that this life we can at present percieve is the "actual" one? Those with a belief in the immaterial or the eternity of the human soul (and this isn't limited to the Christian faith) may in fact view our presence in this material world as a transitory state, and whatever takes place outside it, freed from the constraints of material existence, as the "true life".
    Unfortunately, we all need a frame of reference... so we pick one.

    I have no illusions about the fact that moment-by-moment I make a choice about what is true. There is nothing that is provable. It's all a choice on the part of the observer, and we all make it based on whatever criteria we personally value. While there might potentially be some "ultimate reality" out there and some of us might be more right than others, we have no way to confirm or know what that truth is; like the tagline for the movie "Solaris" suggests, "There are no answers... just choices."

    Anyway, there's something interesting that strikes me about your view of a potential deity, which is that you seek to impose your own terms of reference and values upon her/him/it and think that the deity needs to be amenable to your definition of what it "should" be about to be worthy of your belief. It makes you seem very distant, speculative, essentially unconvinced and quite skeptical.
    We all do that, sweetie.
    ... just like I said above.

    Except we sometimes have different criteria.

    Note that I started out believing a particular faith (conservative/Baptist Christianity) but over the years used my intellect to widen my vision further until finally I saw that having a particular belief was just another choice since there's nothing that can be conclusive to prove its veracity over something else.

    At that point, there IS nothing left except trying to figure out what your values are and then embracing life through your values.

    I can certainly choose to buy into someone ELSE'S priorities and view of existence... but why the hell would I want to do that? If nothing can be proven to be true, at least now I'm a coherent person, a congruent person, with my inner and outer aligned. Before I was living a fractured existence, with an incongruent identity; I was a fake even by my own standards.

    I think it would be different if we could conclusively say that a particular deity was provable and true, vs another. But we can't.


    This puts you in a very different position from one who has a deep-rooted faith, because even the process of questioning it would in this case mean more that they sought to understand the true meaning behind the apparently contradictory information they had about that deity - to try to discern the will and purpose of God and make them more comprehensible.
    Like I said, that's how I spent the first 20-25 years of my life. I was very devout, very sincere, very faithful... but very tormented by the inconsistencies.

    At some point, where you're faced with increasing cognitive dissonance, you have to reevaluate and decide if your initial framework is actually wrong and you have to start from scratch.

    So that is what I did. The old model was no longer salvageable IMO and at that point it takes an act of courage to scrap it, take shit from all the other people who now label you as an apostate, and start over.

    In view of what you've said here, and a lot of other stuff I've seen you say elsewhere, I'm a little unsure why you bother holding on to the "Christian" part of your identity. You might be culturally and by background a Christian (perhaps this is why you hold on to it) but your own beliefs seem pretty much wholly agnostic at this stage. You haven't exactly rejected faith outright, but appear largely dismissive of its relevance to how you live now.
    You're totally right in that the two can be at war at each other. I'm only human and I tend to flip around and around within them, back and forth. I think it's also pretty evident in my personality even on this forum, where I probably seem to swing between social compassion and detached self-reliance; people can't tell whether I'm T or F sometimes, it's hard to get a bead on me, I suppose. I think life can be viewed through both lenses simultaneously, although there might seem to be a radical difference between both views.

    I can only suggest that you should read Stephen Donaldson's "Thomas Covenant" series and see what you can glean from it. I read it for the first time when I was about twelve, but I reread the books every few years and they seem to open up more and more to me when I do so. It's the story about a leper who can't accept his fantasy world actually exists because his very life depends on retaining his coherence and sanity, yet he values the things in the Land and they grow to have meaning for him.

    Anything of value in his life exists NOT in the world where he is a diseased and rejected leper, where his life is continuously at risk due to inadvertent physical harm he might cause to himself (since he can no longer feel things), where he is constantly judged by his peers for being diseased, it exists in this fantasy world that leaves him feeling alive and whole and connected.

    In the end, he learns to walk between the poles of Belief and Unbelief and embrace both realities at once. Both are real; neither are real; but he can't abandon either. Ironically, there is also a Creator who is involved, but Covenant seems to become the Creator's proxy in the Land in a sense... he's autonomous and has power that can save or damn the earth.

    Needless to say, the series had a profound impact on me. When all else fails, walk through the eye of the paradox...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

Similar Threads

  1. [NF] Question for NFPs. (Other NFs are welcome to give their input!)
    By julesiscools in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 12-18-2016, 07:26 PM
  2. A question for Christians who aren't bible fundamentalists.
    By ajblaise in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 238
    Last Post: 12-29-2009, 12:32 PM
  3. [NT] Question for NT Women - Are you a feminist?
    By Lauren Ashley in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 03-06-2009, 04:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO