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  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Here- for another example I'll quote one of my favorite books- this is from Tim O'Brien's book The Things They Carried

    "If Rat told you, for example, that he'd slept with four girls in one night, you could figure it was about a girl and a half. It wasn't a question of deceit. Just the opposite: he wanted to heat up the truth, make it burn so hot that you would feel exactly the way that he felt. For Rat Kiley, I think, facts were formed by sensations, not the other way around..."

    Is Rat lying? Or is he telling the truth? I would say that it was HIS truth, since that's the way that he experienced it, but the author says that it's a lie since it's not "the truth."
    This reminded me of some of the recent threads where we discussed adaptations of books into movies.

    Some people will say the movie is a lie if events have been changed from the book.

    But sometimes events in the movie are changed so that they still have the power to evoke the same intensity and type of feeling that the book did... and a literal translation would not have done that, the fires needed to be stoked hotter.

    Is one a lie and one the truth? Are both lies? Are both true?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #42
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    This reminded me of some of the recent threads where we discussed adaptations of books into movies.

    Some people will say the movie is a lie if events have been changed from the book.

    But sometimes events in the movie are changed so that they still have the power to evoke the same intensity and type of feeling that the book did... and a literal translation would not have done that, the fires needed to be stoked hotter.

    Is one a lie and one the truth? Are both lies? Are both true?
    I don't think you can apply a person's taste in movies and books to the question of absolute truth. If there is something that is not absolutely true then it would be taste. It's more meaningful to look at ideas which many believe to be universal, e.g. "Thou shall not murder", and then determine if these are universal or not.

    More importantly this post ignores the indisputable fact that the movie is almost always better than the book.
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  3. #43
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I don't think you can apply a person's taste in movies and books to the question of absolute truth. If there is something that is not absolutely true then it would be taste. It's more meaningful to look at ideas which many believe to be universal, e.g. "Thou shall not murder", and then determine if these are universal or not.
    Are you missing my point, or am I just misperceiving that you are?

    More importantly this post ignores the indisputable fact that the movie is almost always better than the book.
    Blasphemer. (You will burn for this, Angel!)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    More importantly this post ignores the indisputable fact that the movie is almost always better than the book.

    One of my pet peeves is when people assert that the book is better than the movie for no other reason than it is a book.

    I think that Whatever is using a different definition of truth than we are. To address her example of the guy sleeping with multiple women...no matter how many women he says he slept with last night, and no matter how many women his friends assume that really means, there was a correct number of women. Maybe he said it was four, and his friend thinks that means two. But in reality, the truth of the matter is that there is an actual number of women he slept with last night, and truth has nothing to do with how many he says there were or how many his friend thinks there were. I think where we differ is that you limit truth to what people can determine for themselves and I think truth is something completely apart from what people think. Just because those people disagree on how many women the guy slept with doesn't mean the truth is in doubt.

  5. #45
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    that's because you're an INTJ!

    I guess that the way that I look at the truth IS a bit different from the way that you do- maybe this is why people sometimes think that ESTPs are chronic liars The Truth to me differs from person to person- the truth to you is a concrete thing funny that in this case you're going for the concrete and I'm going for the abstract!
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Punggung's Avatar
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    No

  7. #47
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Why are people confusing societal agreements on basic questions like "Is murder acceptable?" for a topic like "absolute truth?"

  8. #48
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    Why are people confusing societal agreements on basic questions like "Is murder acceptable?" for a topic like "absolute truth?"
    Because the OP isn't about absolute truth it's about absolute morals.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    OP? I don't know what that is. The tread title is about absolute truth though and I'm still trying to figure out why people are arguing ethics.

  10. #50
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    OP? I don't know what that is. The tread title is about absolute truth though and I'm still trying to figure out why people are arguing ethics.
    When I said it, I meant, "Original Post." Normally, "Original Poster." It's more about ethics than truth.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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