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  1. #81
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    Smile Pythia

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I am afraid your definitions of the above terms are somewhat different from what one would usually think them to mean. But if we agree on these definitions, we can also agree on most of your claims.

    I believe more than ever that my candidate for your new username is very suitable.
    Yes, Pythia is a wonderful name and as you say, very suitable.

    I don't normally give definitions because I don't normally argue. And I don't normally argue because I don't normally make claims. It is hard to describe to you what I do and that is why Pythia is such a good name. I mean can you imagine the Oracle arguing?

    Perhaps if I say, I try to say something interesting and amusing but which comes from my centre. And then I wait for your reply.

    An argument doesn't seem to come from my centre. An argument seems to come from my head. And of course we want to win or loose an argument.

    An argument seems to me to be a way of avoiding my centre.

    I know the form of argumentation is common and even normal here, but I am glad I avoid arguments most of the time.

    Of course when I make a post from my centre, I hope for a reply from the centre. And when I get a reply off centre in the form of an argument, I feel the point of my post has been missed.

    However I see through a glass darkly, and I can make out your lineaments, and I like what I see.

    Victor.

  2. #82
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And today we have three civilizations - the West, Indian civilization and Chinese civilization. And there is no fourth civilization. Islam claims to be a fourth civilization, but it is only a large political religion.
    What civilization, then, exists in Africa, or would you maintain that the entirety of that continent is "uncivilized"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And interestingly the Enlightenment occurred within Western civilization but not within Indian or Chinese civilization.
    Did Indian or Chinese civilization need an enlightenment? Western civilization had the "dark ages" and the inquisition to overcome. What similar phenomena were active in the other civilizations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Of course one can be an atheist and fully understand our religion. In fact most atheists understand our religion better than the believers.
    Ironic, isn't it?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What civilization, then, exists in Africa, or would you maintain that the entirety of that continent is "uncivilized"?

    Did Indian or Chinese civilization need an enlightenment? Western civilization had the "dark ages" and the inquisition to overcome. What similar phenomena were active in the other civilizations?
    I would say that Africa is tribal.

    And the Enlightenment was quite specific to the West in the 17th and 18th Centuries. And led to modern medicine, modern science, modern economics and liberal democracy.

  4. #84
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    I think it completely depends on the person. I really don't like it when people try to impose their beliefs on someone else, thinking their way of living is the best way of living for every single person in the entire world. People are different. People's lives are different. What's best for one person is what's worse for someone else. :|

  5. #85
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I don't know which is easier, from an individual's point of view.
    Well, for an individual in our society, it's best to be somewhere between agnostic and catholic, because most people see catholicism as a sign of being a good person. When I moved in a new apartment, my mother was so relieved to see the previous tenant had a cross sign on the wall... That meant there was good chance the previous tenant cared well for the apartment. I was baffled.
    But if you don't criticize the clerics and the pope, you're seen as gullible and dumb. You need to believe in a god, in resurrection (everybody who's okay goes to heaven) and at least that Jesus' idea about ethics is the best; never mind virgin birth or other details.

    If I substract the society's expectation and ask myself whether believing or not would make me happier. Probably believing is better, but I can't do it any more. Probably I would be happier, less afraid of death, and more confident in the future if I believed there was a nice powerful being who cared for us all. But "it would make me feel better" is not an argument for existence. I would also feel better if I had a million euros now, so do I have to believe I've got that money and start spending it, or what?
    I want to be honest with myself in the first place.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  6. #86
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    I'd call for with.

    Meaningful, purposeful, but ultimately false and corrupt. That's what I'd say organized religion is.

    And, I'm speaking as a self-proclaimed Born-Again Atheist. All of my family is otherwise religious, with few exceptions, and what is funny that I end up going less against THEIR beliefs as they do go against MINE. When this happens, I defend myself. However I've sort of come to learn the value of a religious belief. My mum has breast cancer, and it's what provides her the most comfort; my dad, likewise, has a depressive history, and a combination of things, including the cancer, causes him to turn to spirituality (he's somewhat of a pantheist). My sisters, unfortunately, don't seem to have any other excuse other than "it doesn't rock the boat".

  7. #87
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Almighty View Post
    I'd call for with.

    Meaningful, purposeful, but ultimately false and corrupt. That's what I'd say organized religion is.
    Sound more like secular humanism to me.

  8. #88
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    Smile Mother Religion

    No one can live without religion. Atheists are the perfect example as they are obsessed with religion.

    And what particular religion we are depends on the time and place we are born. And like ducklings we imprint on the first religion we see. And the imprint is indelible.

    Can we live without religion? Can we live without our mother?

    And when the impious cease to believe their mother religion, they believe anything.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    No one can live without religion. Atheists are the perfect example as they are obsessed with religion.

    And what particular religion we are depends on the time and place we are born. And like ducklings we imprint on the first religion we see. And the imprint is indelible.

    Can we live without religion? Can we live without our mother?

    And when the impious cease to believe their mother religion, they believe anything.
    I'm not sure I agree with your line of reasoning.

    To an atheist, religion is simply an idea. You can say we're "obsessed" with religion, but in what way? Certainly not as a moral code. I mean, sure, I bet my moral code has somehow been influenced by Christianity, and I won't deny the influence religion has had on humanity. Maybe that's your point; but it's a big generalization.

    It's not a positive obsession, and most atheists I know go on without it. Most atheism isn't religious in any way, not in the sense that we're organized and provide ourselves a set rule of conduct beyond, "THINK!"

  10. #90
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Its harder to trust you and you and you and you is source energy, religion is a premutation of that source energy between you and you. Possible!

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