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  1. #31
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Another take on the OP: I can do quite well without religion, but suffer if I neglect my spiritual side. I make a very clear distinction between the two.

  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The Imprint

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Church for me was mostly life-enhancing and I was happier when I wasn't so thoroughly doubtful. I never felt controlled or bossed around or diminished in any way by church. I think if you are raised in a particular faith, it determines your actions as a grownup to a bigger degree than you think, because you're either with it or continuously reacting against it. I have a friend who is a staunch wiccan in reaction to her grandfather's being a Church of the Nazarene preacher. When I suggest there are other kinds of Christianity she could partake of, she doesn't recognize them. Which to me means she does believe in her grandfather's church. It's the only one she officially disbelieves in.
    Yes, and just as there is no atheism without theism, there are no disbelievers in MBTI without believers.

    There are of course protestant atheists and catholic atheists as there are Nazarene wiccans.

    Like ducklings following a duck, we imprint on the first religion we see. And then no matter how intellectual we are, no matter how cool, no matter how rebellious, we always remain a duck, and when we grow up we always fall in love with our imprint - another duck.

    Yes, duckie, it's ducks all the way.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    I guess the question could be rephrased as "Is it easier to persevere through life with faith or without?"
    Hmm... with belief it is easiest... then there's at least something in your life you can feel will always be there as an anchor. But this is not faith really, it is a belief. Faith is to not be sure there is anything but sorta trust it anyways. Faith like this is quite close to not having faith, in both cases you don't really have much firm ground under your feet, but if there is faith you don't have to be all freaked out about that.

    I guess this makes me part of the faith group... weird.

  4. #34
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Religious belief of any kind is and has always been unnatural for me. It's easier for me mentally to not believe.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #35
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Hmm... with belief it is easiest... then there's at least something in your life you can feel will always be there as an anchor. But this is not faith really, it is a belief. Faith is to not be sure there is anything but sorta trust it anyways. Faith like this is quite close to not having faith, in both cases you don't really have much firm ground under your feet, but if there is faith you don't have to be all freaked out about that.

    I guess this makes me part of the faith group... weird.

    I find your distinction between faith and belief quite baffling.

    Faith is a type of belief. You cannot have faith and "not be sure" at the same time. Faith is having complete trust. Otherwise you are having a crisis of faith.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Faith is a type of belief. You cannot have faith and "not be sure" at the same time.
    Yes, you can. The unknown is the only god there is. I guess it is something like being in darkness but trusting it to be safe. If you know something to be god, it is not. God is the "not sure" or not known.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Faith is having complete trust. Otherwise you are having a crisis of faith.
    What I was trying to get at is somehow trust, but it doesn't have anything to do with knowing anything. It is kinda the next step after atheism and existential anxiety. It turns the void somehow upside down, so that what you don't know is actually positive.

  7. #37
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Yes, you can. The unknown is the only god there is. I guess it is something like being in darkness but trusting it to be safe. If you know something to be god, it is not. God is the "not sure" or not known.
    You're making a presumption that a person can only have knowledge of the material world. Interaction with God generally occurs within the metaphysical realm.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    You're making a presumption that a person can only have knowledge of the material world. Interaction with God generally occurs within the metaphysical realm.
    He has kept pretty quiet in my case, so, that kinda shapes the way I see this...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't think I'll ever know. I can't imagine not being religious, even if it was a different religion.

    I find comfort in my belief in a benevolent creator and an ultimate purpose.

    But I have often felt rejected by the community of those people who share my faith and outraged at the glib distortion of our religion's teachings by many of it's practitioners.

    And then I feel humbled because I have a lot of room for improvement myself.
    This. : )

    I feel the same way. I feel like it has allowed me to control myself, and given me a foundation.
    The best feeling in the world, is knowing no matter how low you feel in life, and how lost, and when you feel that no one is there for you, There is something out there watching out for you, and slowly pushing you back up.

  10. #40
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    For me its easier to live without religion. Did you know the majority of the worlds wars are due to religious conflicts?
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