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  1. #1
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Default Why do religions hate gays so darn much?

    The most recent news story written here in Oz about adoption rights and once again it's Christian lobby groups urging politicians to reject the bill that would allow same rights for all regardless of sexuality. Now that specific story doesn't matter so much, it's just typical, whenever a topic of gay rights comes up the people jumping up and down attempting to squash them are Christian organisations.

    Why does religion see homosexuality as so darn evil?

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    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    because jesus wasn't gay.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    OK, I am a practice member of the RCC, I've never in 31 years heard a sermon about homosexuality or homosexual rights, for reasons altogether removed and different from my religious faith I oppose moves like this one.

    reject the bill that would allow same rights for all regardless of sexuality
    Its funny, there's a time that particular orientations tried to assert themselves in their distinctiveness and now its "hey, we all the same", I can think of a host of reasons why I could and wouldnt support this practice and approach to sexual orientation.

    For one I'm heternormative and make no bones about that, people can support something else if they want but I'll oppose them, wont hate them, which implies a special feeling for them I dont have, but simply wont support the sort of society they want to create. What are the objective projected stats to suggest that alternatives to heterosexual parenting and commit are beneficial etc. Do you know that the stats for sustained, successful homosexual coupling are relative to thos of heterosexuals?

    Social services remove young children from grandparents and arrange adoption by gay couple - Telegraph

    For another as Peguy has said before sexual orientation should be an irrelevence, in most of the instances and questions which are being dealt with, instead its used as an opportunity to profile a particular, generally minority, perhaps even a smaller minority than is supposed if, as I believe, you where able to control for behaviours which are too quickly welcomed or accepted as a particular orientation when its anything but.

    Another reason is the massive element of compulsion and coercion here, this is also part of the reason why the religious angle is seized upon, although I do think its for the most part liberal attempts to attack religious faith or authority with any pretext, but these organisation still do provide many adoption and social services in some parts of the world. They also operate under very specific precepts. At an earlier time EVERYONE would have campaigned against the state interfering with that so long as it did not result in any harm to anyone.

    Now the idea is to do the opposite and children WILL suffer if a choice has to be made between conforming to the cultural agenda of a minority of homosexuals (truthfully I believe it is, any of the homosexuals I know in real life are not as interested in these topics as liberal women, in the main) and a majority of liberals and religion haters and providing a service. I just think that's wrong.

    In the case of adoption services or fostering services the rights of the child should be paramount, when that is forgotten child welfare is jeopardised as it was in the UK when social workers to afraid of being accused of bigotry when visiting a homosexual male couple failed to pick up on their sexual abuse, including the creation of a catalogue of photos, of a number of males in their care.

    BBC NEWS | UK | England | Bradford | Foster carers jailed over abuse

    The reality is that the topic of homosexuality and how it has been politicised by friend and foe has made it impossible to talk about, people view highly partisan opinion to be reasonable and reasonable alone, anything threatening that perspective is unwelcome and its one of the few topics that people feel they can and will blow their top about and be justified in doing so because obviously anyone who feels differently than they do are bigots. Which in a different time or place would have been the attitude of someone who couldnt have a challenge to, for instance, aryanism.

    If you take the premise of this thread alone, what's the basis for changing this law, sexual orientation? Simply that? How many kids you going to effect by that move? Its not even an objective or right consideration of the issue its instead a race to respective fox holes to play goodies and baddies again.

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    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    I have no interest in getting into the debate of adoption, that was merely an example. I want to know what religion has against homosexuality.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    I have no interest in getting into the debate of adoption, that was merely an example. I want to know what religion has against homosexuality.
    Oh alright.

    Then I call you on this, this is a flag of convenience and you're simply attacking religion. Its the forum sport and I dont need to talk to you any further.

    Why do gays hate religion so much?

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    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Then I call you on this, this is a flag of convenience and you're simply attacking religion.
    No. I'm asking a genuine question.

    In a debate about gay rights, in any context, I can learn little from those who oppose changes, I've heard it all before, again and again. What I am interested in understanding is the motivation of the church to discriminate against a person based on their sexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its the forum sport and I dont need to talk to you any further.
    If it bothers you then I suggest you don't. *shrug*

    However you have your views, I have mine, they are very different but have no intention of attempting to change yours, I don't understand why we can't have a conversation about them. I am curious about this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Why do gays hate religion so much?
    As there are people who are both gay and religious I don't understand your question.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Then I dont understand yours, the reality is that they dont hate homosexuals, they are simply heteronormative.

    I really dont think this is a philosophy and spirituality topic, its politics, you've also here said that you dont understand how we cant converse on this when you're previous post to me was telling me you didnt want to talk about it, at least in so far as it pertains to the original point, ie adoption, in this post here itself you've said you've heard it all before: I can learn little from those who oppose changes, I've heard it all before, again and again. Not a great place to begin.

    Instead you write: What I am interested in understanding is the motivation of the church to discriminate against a person based on their sexuality.

    I loaded deck to say the very, very least. So, no, I dont believe you are interested in a conversation, I think you're interested in portraying all those who hold the position you're admittedly opposed to as either loons or bigots.

    Which is characteristic of the liberal-gay culture kampf, there's so much emoting its incredible, and also why I think its legitimate for anyone, from any perspective, to want to oppose the recasting of society in this image to the bitter end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Then I dont understand yours, the reality is that they dont hate homosexuals, they are simply heteronormative.
    No, she's right. There are a lot of religious people who hate gays. Openly HATE. Use the word hate - even claim that God hates them, and occasionally participate in lynchings.

    But of course "liberal women" don't think clearly, and of course if they aren't NTJs they must perpetually live in a state of panic attack, so why take our opinions seriously when you can self-congratulate instead.

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    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    you've also here said that you dont understand how we cant converse on this when you're previous post to me was telling me you didnt want to talk about it, at least in so far as it pertains to the original point, ie adoption
    The original point was not adoption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    in this post here itself you've said you've heard it all before: I can learn little from those who oppose changes, I've heard it all before, again and again. Not a great place to begin.
    Which is why I'm not interested in debating the finer details of adoption or marriage or so on, I want to learn something not have the same things I've heard a million times regurgitated for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I loaded deck to say the very, very least. So, no, I dont believe you are interested in a conversation, I think you're interested in portraying all those who hold the position you're admittedly opposed to as either loons or bigots.
    Then leave the thread, you have misread my motives in a major way. I understand your defensiveness as you expect people to jump on you for your views and if that happens sorry but it is not my intent.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    OK, I am a practice member of the RCC, I've never in 31 years heard a sermon about homosexuality or homosexual rights, for reasons altogether removed and different from my religious faith I oppose moves like this one.
    Congrats. I think it's been clarified for you over and over again that over here in the States it's par for the course. We hear this junk over and over again in the pulpit -- both RC and Protestant branches -- and we have many religious groups who get involved up to and past the legal limit of sexuality politics. Face it, in the US sexuality is the big taboo (not just homosexuality) far more than violence or anything else, and people get really up in arms about controlling it as much as possible.

    Kas isn't from the States, though, and I have no idea what Oz is like.

    However, I don't like the leap in the OP from "Christian groups vocal against homosexuality" to "all religion is against homosexuality."
    Religion is far more than just some sects of Christianity, and specific beliefs / expression of belief can change from geographical location to geographical location.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Then I dont understand yours, the reality is that they dont hate homosexuals, they are simply heteronormative.
    No, that's not just it.

    The heteronormativity means they might not naturally UNDERSTAND homosexuality, but how people respond to something shows whether they are responding out of curiosity or desire to comprehend (even if they end up being against it for other reasons) or whether they are reacting out of fear and, yes, Lark, hatred. A person can be heteronormative without being a schlunk about it and without spreading obvious distortion and lies and trying to create fear-mongering attitudes. That actually happens in our culture; it makes discussion pointless and frustrating as hell over here; and it's not even like there's a choice about having to engage because people are actively fighting to push laws to inhibit the other side. So there is no "let's agree to disagree" which can happen in reasonable discussion; no, people are damned set on controlling the society.

    If you can't handle a discussion on those grounds, then maybe it's appropriate for you to bail. You seem to be the one overreacting to Kas's comments here.

    I loaded deck to say the very, very least. So, no, I dont believe you are interested in a conversation, I think you're interested in portraying all those who hold the position you're admittedly opposed to as either loons or bigots.
    Yeah. Because that is so much what her posting style has always been on this forum. Kas is synonymous with loaded language, unfair discussion strategies, and trying to pinpoint anyone who disagrees with her as a loon or bigot.

    Which is characteristic of the liberal-gay culture kampf, there's so much emoting its incredible, and also why I think its legitimate for anyone, from any perspective, to want to oppose the recasting of society in this image to the bitter end.
    Wow.
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