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  1. #161
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Calling an action wrong makes people feel superior for not committing it.

    So there's always incentive to be closed-minded.

    And even if you disagree with your peer group, you might be so trapped in a state of dissonance that you may end up doing something stupid to prove to yourself that they actually do have the right opinion. Otherwise, you'd have to face the giant problem of finding new peers.

  2. #162
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Organized religion is a tool for rulers to control people.
    Gay people means that two people will essentially be silly and not produce any children that will become citizens and produce tax.
    Having more people is essential, and if things were more liberal the population growth might (hypothetically) be in jeopardy.
    Especially until recent times, we needed a lot of people to fight wars, grow and produce things.
    The need for people in the western world has now diminished, and so has our birth rates.

    It is not a coincidence that the most gay-hating institution in the world promotes having lots of children.
    The Catholic church.

    Now, I am not incredibly fond of homosexuality, either. I think it's unnatural, to be honest.
    Not to mention gross. But i'm going to actively not care about it, because I believe that two adults having consensual sex can't be illegal.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  3. #163
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    It stems from people wanting things to be simple so that they have control of their lives. It's simple to stay with the beliefs of one's parents rather than question them and be different. Just like those who grow up in spiritual families see nothing wrong and wonder why people are against it.

  4. #164
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    The thing that gets me, as a Christian who is of the Bible thumperish variety, is that in the NT, where homosexuality is condemned as sin, thieves, the greedy and swindlers are also condemned as are the envious, the deceitful, the slanderous, the insolent, and those disobedient to their parents.

    The way I look at it is when two (or however many) people are adults that are able to consent and have consented, no one is being hurt, if you want to call it that, besides the people who have consented. With some of the other sins listed, people who have not consented are being hurt.

    So I cannot figure out why so many of my Christian friends and family are not up in arms about predatory lending, corporate greed, etc. I think I will do a facebook experiment . . .
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #165
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So I cannot figure out why so many of my Christian friends and family are not up in arms about predatory lending, corporate greed, etc. I think I will do a facebook experiment . . .
    I always love your delicious subversiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Actually, Victor is right about this. There have been empirical studies where adults were shown a baby in diapers without knowing its gender - they were extremely uncomfortable and continously tried to find out if it was a boy or a girl, a "he" or a "she" they saw. It´s deeply engrained.
    Totally. People cannot handle having ungendered children. If you ever study the situations of intersexed people, you'll see the same thing: The conventional wisdom is more and more not performing any sort of surgery (beyond that which will enable the child to be healthy) and let the child make his or her own decision about physical gender at an older age, based on where things go... but the adults and parents can absolutely freak out. It is very very hard to have an ungendered child or even adult... it's even why the transgendered can have a hard time, since people either have trouble changing the established gender in their mind even if they're actually trying...

    ... and you can see it in the English language. I either have to write him/her and his/hers, which is laborious once you write a few paragraphs; or I have an option like "it" and "it's".... which seems to depersonalize the individual. I've seen an occasional person opt for the latter, but it's a hard request to honor due to the seeming depersonalization.

    Also, the same action of a baby get´s different reactions depending on what gender it supposedly has: boy = "look at that little rascal!" girl: "she´s a bit rough, isn´t she?" (and vice versa)
    Totally. The gender gets used as a baseline.

    but note that I don't think this is religion-based, this is culture/human being based.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  6. #166
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Saw first posts and last page. I don't think all religions hate gays. What about the old Greeks? Certainly they were in favour of homosexuals in the army, because they were seen as extra valiant and true to their army companions. Don't know about religion, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Zeus had some gay affair somewhere.
    What about the Hindu religion? Would be interesting to do a little research there, too...
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  7. #167
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The thing that gets me, as a Christian who is of the Bible thumperish variety, is that in the NT, where homosexuality is condemned as sin, thieves, the greedy and swindlers are also condemned as are the envious, the deceitful, the slanderous, the insolent, and those disobedient to their parents.

    The way I look at it is when two (or however many) people are adults that are able to consent and have consented, no one is being hurt, if you want to call it that, besides the people who have consented. With some of the other sins listed, people who have not consented are being hurt.

    So I cannot figure out why so many of my Christian friends and family are not up in arms about predatory lending, corporate greed, etc. I think I will do a facebook experiment . . .
    What they should do is return to years long since passed, where ALL sexual activity was sinful, especially outside of marriage. That way we can ALL be miserable sinners, together, hand in hand with Jesus. All this bullshit about male:male, female:female, I no longer think Christians are in touch with their roots, and I blame the decadent nature of western society for this devolution into persecution and the superiority complex that follows. The truth is that you're absolutely right, Christians SHOULD be boycotting corporations, shunning financial institutions, and living in poverty with lepers, but what can you do, people are hypocrites and that is the only real constant involving humanity.

  8. #168
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The thing that gets me, as a Christian who is of the Bible thumperish variety, is that in the NT, where homosexuality is condemned as sin, thieves, the greedy and swindlers are also condemned as are the envious, the deceitful, the slanderous, the insolent, and those disobedient to their parents.

    The way I look at it is when two (or however many) people are adults that are able to consent and have consented, no one is being hurt, if you want to call it that, besides the people who have consented. With some of the other sins listed, people who have not consented are being hurt.

    So I cannot figure out why so many of my Christian friends and family are not up in arms about predatory lending, corporate greed, etc. I think I will do a facebook experiment . . .
    Yes, selective application of Biblical injunctions seems the norm rather than the exception. I am not a Christian, but I do think that if those who are did a better job of acting as Jesus would, the world would be a much better place.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Actually, Victor is right about this. There have been empirical studies where adults were shown a baby in diapers without knowing its gender - they were extremely uncomfortable and continously tried to find out if it was a boy or a girl, a "he" or a "she" they saw. It´s deeply engrained.
    Also, the same action of a baby get´s different reactions depending on what gender it supposedly has: boy = "look at that little rascal!" girl: "she´s a bit rough, isn´t she?" (and vice versa)
    In the literate world we perceive by making distinctions.

    One fundamental distinction is gender.

    But an even more fundamental distinction is inner and outer. And so we get our introvert and our extrovert.

    However in the noosphere, the electronic world, we hear by resonance.

    The literate world consists of twenty-six distinctions called the alphabet - from alpha to omega. And all our distinctions flow from the alphabet.

    But in the noosphere everything happens all at once, including puns and contradictions. Everything resonates with everything else. So everything affects everything else.

    The literate world is logical while the noosphere sings or cries or whimpers or dances for joy.

    We see the literate world as individuals but we hear and feel the noosphere as an electronic tribe in the global village.

  10. #170
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    because jesus wasn't gay.
    Or was he?

    Was Jesus gay?

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