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  1. #131
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Forgive me if someone already addressed this, this thread exploded by the time I found it again.

    I wonder, though, if this masculine/feminine union being closer to God ordeal was based on outdated thinkings.. I agree entirely with balance, and balancing masculine and feminine. But why is biology the cutting line for that? It's outdated.. Nowadays, most people are aware there are women out there born with more masculine mentalities than their male counterparts, and whatnot. Where does the mind come into play with this? Or is it left out?
    It's all mythology, and yes, it's outdated. From an authentic Christian point of view, masculine and feminine are not equivalent to yin and yang. Yin and yang are equal and necessary forces. Women are incomplete without men, men are only slightly incomplete without women, only missing one rib after all. The union is more about procreation and social order imo.

    In something like Kabbalah in the Jewish Mystical tradition, male and female have different symbolic meaning and purpose. The merging of dualities is personified by Adam Kadmon Even though they come from the same tradition, I don't think this carries to fundamentalist Christianity.

  2. #132
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I keep going back to the thread title here and think you're just missing the point, since you tend to get caught up in the intellectual aspects of discussion without stepping back and viewing it through relational/social lenses: "Why do religions hate gays so darn much?"
    ....(And really, how many "male partnerships" are there with guys who aren't gay? Please. The whole point is that the huge majority of men is not willing to look like they're gay publicly to build a 'male partnership'! Would you? You're describing a very very limited scenario.)

    You get that, right?
    There are reasons why people overreact about many things. However a stitch in time saves nine. It will only take a few cases of children being exploited using more liberal adoption laws for the majority to go ape shit. An ounce of prevention could prevent this emotional overreaction. I know a "huge majority" of men would not be motivated to look gay and adopt a kid...but you are missing the point to believe predators like pedophiles would not.

    A few bad apples will ruin the image of the bunch in the eyes of an emotional majority, similar to the scandal of bad priests in the Catholic Church. And when asked what did the government do the answer will be similar to that of the Church in the molestation scandal, "Nothing, we didn't want to hurt anyones feeling or otherwise rock the boat". Regardless of ones position the extreme responses to children being molested by the predator minority who abuse a relaxed politically correct system is clearly forseeable.

    As to the original question it is flawed because it presupposes the answer. The more correct question would be "Do religions hate gays?" or the more precise question to the concern of the starter of the thread of "how come some people hate/fear/and or are repulsed by gays".
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  3. #133
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    What is the thing religions want most? Indeed, power, and so: lots of followers.
    What is the quickest way to get lots of followers? By having the ones you have lots of babies.
    And so, who get in the way of that? Gays, because gays don't naturally make babies.
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  4. #134
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    A few bad apples will ruin the image of the bunch in the eyes of an emotional majority.....
    I also fear that opportunists will take advantage of more relaxed laws...

    ... but Christians will have made me play the fool if I thought this was there only motivation. I think it's an argument, and it's a point that helps their cause, but not the core motivations. If you're going to say a major point of Christian disgust with homosexuality is because they're worried that bad apples will tarnish the image of homosexuals.. I'm going to say BS. The image is tarnished already, they don't need or require any further bad things happening to create that tarnish.
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  5. #135
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I also fear that opportunists will take advantage of more relaxed laws...

    ... but Christians will have made me play the fool if I thought this was there only motivation. I think it's an argument, and it's a point that helps their cause, but not the core motivations. If you're going to say a major point of Christian disgust with homosexuality is because they're worried that bad apples will tarnish the image of homosexuals.. I'm going to say BS. The image is tarnished already, they don't need or require any further bad things happening to create that tarnish.
    Some Christians are prejudiced against homosexuals. Others are not. My friend belongs to one Christian church where the pastor is an openly gay female in a "partnership". So similar to how all gays are not the same neither are all Christians. I would agree that a majority of Christian fundamentalist do not look on homosexuality favorably. They think it is a sin for its own sake regardless of the consequences.

    The child molestation issue comes into play where predators take advantage of a mostly well meaning liberalized system to address equal rights for gays [i.e. liberalized gay male adoption]. This niche similar to what the pedophile predators did to the saw in Catholic Church particularly after Vatican 2) and a majority of the population (a substantial amount who are prejudiced against gays from the get go simply because they see what they are doing as sinfully and a majority who just don't sympathize) will respond to horrific molestation cases with extreme measures that mostly severely punish the innocent (well beyond reasonable preventative regulation which I suggested).

    Regardless if one thinks additional scrutiny to protect children is just or not, a person can easily foresee the reaction after a likely scandal in a minority of cases that cause sensationalism in the media when the molestations/sexual abuse begin to be exposed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
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  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I know a "huge majority" of men would not be motivated to look gay and adopt a kid...but you are missing the point to believe predators like pedophiles would not.
    Fine.
    Show me.

    Unless pedophiles are stupid and can't figure out two is better than one, there should be a significant number of males in the known offender list who partnered up with another male in order to improve their chances at molesting children.

    I mean, that's the only way the danger you describe would have any validity, right? If you're not exaggerating the threat? I assume you're building this on something besides pure conjecture, since you're suggesting we screw over a lot of innocent people to catch a few crooks.

    So check the states that either allow gay marriage or domestic partnerships and/or child adoption, and let's see how viable your threat is.

    You know what I expect you to find?

    Depending on the TYPE of pedophiles involved, I'm gonna bet you'll find either abusive younger men who are married to women, who mess with kids as a control/violence issue; or quiet older men who are married to women who don't pry into their husbands' business; or quiet SINGLE men who hide in their house all the time and look at kiddie porn. That would be my guess.

    Let me know what you find out.
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  7. #137
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    ^^ Thanks for the invitation but I will pass.

    The conjecture works both ways but I think someone should look at that angle in more detail before they drope kids with no blood ties off at male strangers homes to fight for themselves. No big deal we just have different oppinions on the subject. Groupthink tends to be a bad idea in general anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
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  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    ^^ Thanks for the invitation but I will pass.
    I figured as much.

    The conjecture works both ways but I think someone should look at that angle in more detail before they drop kids with no blood ties off at male strangers homes to fight for themselves.
    Yeah, Spammy. Because that's exactly what happens when children are adopted through a rigorous months/years-long process involving background checks and continual home studies and are always under scrutiny from social workers and suspicious neighbors, and usually involving the expenditure of tens of thousands of dollars.

    (I've adopted before, so I'm acquainted with the process.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  9. #139
    Oberon
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    I wonder... the thread title mentions "religions." I'm aware that Islam, Judaism, Christianity and Mormonism have their anti-homosexual doctrines... but what do Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism and Shinto have to say about it? Anything?

  10. #140
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I wonder... the thread title mentions "religions." I'm aware that Islam, Judaism, Christianity and Mormonism have their anti-homosexual doctrines... but what do Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism and Shinto have to say about it? Anything?
    The Buddha called for right action and abstanance from sexual misconduct. Misconduct can be further defined as doing no harm to one's self or others.
    There is no doctrinal prohibition against homosexuality. However there may be cultural prohibitions that are attached to Buddhist practice.

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