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  1. #121
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So let's see... in the official database, there are 1811 known offenders per million in the State of California (which is one of the highest numbers of all the states). Let's assume that half the population is men, which means 1811 out of 500,000.
    ....Let's get something straight here: They're GAY... attracted to adults of the same gender... not pedophiles who are attracted to children.
    I think the mathematic application does not fairly address my concern. It only addresses "known pedophiles" which is likely a small percentage of actual pedophiles and it assumes a random collection of the populace vs. a likely significant greater concentration because of predators.

    I clearly agree that there is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile (although clearly one could be both as one hears horror stories of boys being molested by men).

    The concern would be a conspiracy between two pedophiles (gay or no) to use liberalized adoption laws to victimize children. In other words it would not be a random occurrence but an intentional crime therefore the math fails to represent the threat).

    For example the child molesters who joined the Roman Catholic church as priests to victimize children created a greater concentration than random collection in the general public. It would still be a small percentage but the damage/horror done to the innocent would be an abomination.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #122
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I think the mathematic application does not fairly address my concern. It only addresses "known pedophiles" which is likely a small percentage of actual pedophiles and it assumes a random collection of the populace vs. a likely significant greater concentration because of predators.

    I clearly agree that there is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile (although clearly one could be both as one hears horror stories of boys being molested by men).

    My concern would be a conspiracy between two pedophiles (gay or no) to use liberalized adoption laws to victimize children. In other words it would not be a random occurrence but an intentional crime therefore the math (and I doubt that most pedophiles are "known pedophiles" so the numbers are off).

    For example the child molesters who joined the Roman Catholic church as priests to victimize children created a greater concentration than random collection in the general public. It would still be a small percentage but the damage/horror done to the innocent would be an abomination.

    Yes, and I think my point is that this sort of "conspiracy" can occur easily enough among ANY TYPE OF HUMAN BEING...

    ... so why are you singling out GAY couples?

    Capiche?
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  3. #123
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, and I think my point is that this sort of "conspiracy" can occur easily enough among ANY TYPE OF HUMAN BEING...

    ... so why are you singling out GAY couples?

    Capiche?
    Not singling out gays singling out two male partners (gay or not). I believe that conspiracy would be easier to form and accomplish than a male/female pedophile conspiracy. I think that is why the Roman Catholic priesthood was such a breeding ground for those predators.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  4. #124
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Not singling out gays singling out two male partners (gay or not). I believe that conspiracy would be easier to form and accomplish than a male/female pedophile conspiracy. I think that is why the Roman Catholic priesthood was such a breeding ground for those predators.
    And so you're basically going to ream over all innocent gay people in order to make sure that two males can't start a kiddie-porn/incest ring.

    That's not the America I know.

    (Or actually, maybe it is, nowadays. Hard to tell sometimes.)

    It's a concern, but it's exactly what I said above about targeting Muslims who are American citizens because a few Muslim guys blew up the World Trade towers about ten years ago.

    Or forcibly sticking a bunch of Japanese-descended American citizens in camps back in the '40's during WWII.

    You don't punish a large group of innocent people in order to remove the small risk. Our legal system is even built on the principle of letting a bad guy walk so that the innocent guy won't get convicted.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #125
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't know that it would be easier to form a male/male conspiracy, anyway, considering there would be so much more public scrutiny of a homosexual couple adopting a child. An alarming number of the gay couples with children I know have had DSS called on them for nothing more than being gay couples with children. And since DSS has to follow up on every report, they get a visit from a social worker.
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  6. #126
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    And so you're basically going to ream over all innocent gay people in order to make sure that two males can't start a kiddie-porn/incest ring.

    That's not the America I know.

    (Or actually, maybe it is, nowadays. Hard to tell sometimes.)

    It's a concern, but it's exactly what I said above about targeting Muslims who are American citizens because a few Muslim guys blew up the World Trade towers about ten years ago.

    Or forcibly sticking a bunch of Japanese-descended American citizens in camps back in the '40's during WWII.

    You don't punish a large group of innocent people in order to remove the small risk. Our legal system is even built on the principle of letting a bad guy walk so that the innocent guy won't get convicted.
    The legal system also takes into account of damage vs. utility. The damage even in isolated cases of a innocent child being abused by two predators is a large counterbalance.

    I am not completely against adoption to a pair of males as parent, only that I think there should be a greater policing of such affairs.

    However, such intensified policing will likely cause inconvenience and hurt a lot of peoples feelings and raise claims of violation of equal protection.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  7. #127
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I am not completely against adoption to a pair of males as parent, only that I think there should be a greater policing of such affairs.

    However, such intensified policing will likely cause inconvenience and hurt a lot of peoples feelings and raise claims of violation of equal protection.
    Please check my very first post on the matter to you, plus Ivy's recent comments.

    Realistically people are already all over two-male parents because of this sort of attitude that you endorse. What more would you like to do to scrutinize them?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #128
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Please check my very first post on the matter to you, plus Ivy's recent comments.

    Realistically people are already all over two-male parents because of this sort of attitude that you endorse. What more would you like to do to scrutinize them?
    Rather than have the states/counties/municipalities simply addresss mob response, alertness and or prejudices the same way as everybody else who is suspected for abuse (and the underlying natural response of hiding and moving to more private/"understanding" environments, both by the innocent as well as the guilty). Have a federal unit who specializes in the issues/crimes to monitor and establish protocol which evaluate/monitor in detail these instances and address due process/sensitivity/accuracy in these cases.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  9. #129
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    I'll echo Jennifer......
    Forgive me if someone already addressed this, this thread exploded by the time I found it again.

    I wonder, though, if this masculine/feminine union being closer to God ordeal was based on outdated thinkings.. I agree entirely with balance, and balancing masculine and feminine. But why is biology the cutting line for that? It's outdated.. Nowadays, most people are aware there are women out there born with more masculine mentalities than their male counterparts, and whatnot. Where does the mind come into play with this? Or is it left out?
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Rather than have the states/counties/municipalities simply addresss mob response, alertness and or prejudices the same way as everybody else who is suspected for abuse (and the underlying natural response of hiding and moving to more private/"understanding" environments, both by the innocent as well as the guilty). Have a federal unit who specializes in the issues/crimes to monitor and establish protocol which evaluate/monitor in detail these instances and address due process/sensitivity/accuracy in these cases.

    I keep going back to the thread title here and think you're just missing the point, since you tend to get caught up in the intellectual aspects of discussion without stepping back and viewing it through relational/social lenses: "Why do religions hate gays so darn much?"

    This is exactly the same crap that reinforces people's views of gays as perverse, illegitimate, "not up to par" with het people. You're singling them out as gay couples to make them jump through additional hoops compared to het couples. The visible message is "they need more scrutiny because there is something not right with them."

    (And really, how many "male partnerships" are there with guys who aren't gay? Please. The whole point is that the huge majority of men is not willing to look like they're gay publicly to build a 'male partnership'! Would you? You're describing a very very limited scenario.)

    You get that, right?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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