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  1. #1
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    Default Ubermensch in Real Life

    Have there been, or were there ever, any Ubermensch individuals at all in history? I think Fredrich Nietzche said that there weren't any before his time (with the exception of a few individuals, like Napoleon), but surely there must have been some during the twentieth century. What people like Theodore Roosevelt, Adolf Hitler, Ghandi, or Martin Luther King Jr.?

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    actually the professor i had for existentialism said Nietzsche himself identified 2 in his lifetime: Emerson, and von Goethe.

    he did sing praises about napoleon, though.


    The only Ubermesnch i've myself identified/suspected is the fictional character hannibal lecter. Totally out of control, and totally principled. I don't think it's easy to identify any real life Ubermensch - it's too murky. It's never really clear how/where/why those people you mentioned acquired their values and principles, and doubt can easily be cast on any other historical figure.

    Kurt cobain, maybe.

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    In real life the ubermensch were the SS.

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    The SS (and Hitler) might have used Nietzsche's writings as support and justification for what they were doing to the jews, but that doesn't make them Ubermensch.

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    The Nazis were the complete opposite of the Ubermensch; they blindly followed the orders of their government; they were nothing but shepple masses who committed atrocities because they were instructed to. Hitler himslef may have been an Ubermensch, but some facts that I have heard about him reveal him to be a very normal man, a person who was human, all too human if you will.

    Aside from that I am fairly certain that Theodore Roosevelt was an Ubermensch; he was a larger than life character who did one badass thing after another, he possess his own views onto the world, he was charismatic, fearless, and bold; all in all he was almost like no individual before him and he was truely superior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Brain View Post
    The Nazis were the complete opposite of the Ubermensch; they blindly followed the orders of their government; they were nothing but shepple masses who committed atrocities because they were instructed to. Hitler himslef may have been an Ubermensch, but some facts that I have heard about him reveal him to be a very normal man, a person who was human, all too human if you will.
    Not to mention, the very core of their ideology reaks of what Nietzsche lamented the most against: Nay-saying. And there's no bigger Naysayer than one who says "All _____ should die".

    I can definitely see why you think Teddy was one. I admire how he pushed on in the jungles of south America when it was very reckless to do so.

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    Thumbs down Ubermensch and Untermensch

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    The SS (and Hitler) might have used Nietzsche's writings as support and justification for what they were doing to the jews, but that doesn't make them Ubermensch.
    Good heavens, the SS described themselves as ubermensch and the Jews as untermensch.

    The SS were the perfection of Eugenics, begun in the USA just like MBTI.

    And although the Germans no longer call themselves ubermensch (supermen) or the Jews untermensch (under-men or inferior-men), the Americans have never quite got over Eugenics and keep ramming superman (ubermensch) down our throats.

    But unfortunately for the Americans, the ubermensch and the untermensch are stuck in our gullets.

    In other words, we have had a gutful.

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    How are Gandhi and MLK Jr. ubermensch types? They based much of their philosophy on Tolstoy's very Christian, very altruistic, very not-Nietzschean book "The Kingdom of God is Within You".

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post

    The only Ubermesnch i've myself identified/suspected is the fictional character hannibal lecter..
    Fictional? How about Bart Simpson

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    Originally posted by Victor
    Good heavens, the SS described themselves as ubermensch and the Jews as untermensch.
    The SS deluded themsleves into thinking that they were ubermensch material, despite the fact that they weren't.

    Originally posted by KDude
    How are Gandhi and MLK Jr. ubermensch types? They based much of their philosophy on Tolstoy's very Christian, very altruistic, very not-Nietzschean book "The Kingdom of God is Within You".
    I beleive that they're ubermensch type people because they rejected the values of their time (blind racial intolerance) and replaced them with new ones (equality for people of all races), all the while encouraging thousands of people to do the same. Yeah they were non-violent, but last I checked being violent towards an antagonistic outdated social force wasn't one of the criteria of the ubermensch.

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    Thumbs down In Real Life

    We can't understand the ubermensch without understanding the untermensch.

    Ubermensch don't stand by themselves. For an ubermensch needs an untermensch to define themselves, just as the untermensch needs the ubermensch for definition.

    And unfortunately those who valorise ubermensch tend to be intermensch.

    But being an untermensch is so painful, we try to escape into ubermensch.

    Superman, the ur-ubermensch, and superheroes are adored and imitated by little boys, who are by definition untermensch who want to grow into ubermensch.

    But ask yourself which country in the world has given us the fantasy of superman and super heroes? Is it the country with the largest economy in the world but whose citizens have a paranoid view of the rest of the world? Do these citizens feel they are untermensch and compensate with fantasies of ubermensch?

    The reality is no ubermensch without untermensch.

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